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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14859
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Posted: 26 June 2018 at 11:19am | IP Logged | 1
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Travel ban upheld by the supreme court (after numerous tries), abortion on the way to being impossible for most of the country's women to access, will the wall not get funded? Support for Trump is not going to evaporate anytime soon from outraged people 'exposing' him.
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One of the reasons you are feeling beleaguered, Rebecca, is that you don’t know how to stay in one lane.
Let’s simplify things.
Do you feel a policy of separating children from their parents is right or wrong?
Do you feel people have the right to be angry over a policy of separating children from their parents?
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Michael Sommerville Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 417
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Posted: 26 June 2018 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 2
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Are the children being separated from families that are coming to a legal border crossings seeking asylum? I would assume that those saying they seek asylum would know that they need to do it through legal means or do they just use that as a fall back when they get caught by BPA. Do the families that cross illegally get the option to go back over the border? If children can not be detained for more than 20 days what would a viable option be? Is catch and release a solution that has been working?
Separating children from parents is not a good option at all. It is traumatic without a doubt. Also lets not pretend that the detention centers are subhuman places. Many of those detained are being fed, clothed, educated and getting medical care that exceeds what they may have experienced before. To equate it to concentration camps is a huge leap. It is an unfair comparison to Japanese detainment camps also. One was detaining American citizens and the other is detaining those that broke the law.
There has to be some middle ground solution that neither side is happy with but both can live with.
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Michael Sommerville Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 417
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Posted: 26 June 2018 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 3
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Is the policy to separate children or is the policy charge all adults that enter the country illegally and the consequence is children being separated due to a court ruling? Was the court ruling used as leverage to not detain families and force more catch and release?
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Mark Rand Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 May 2007 Location: United States Posts: 360
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Posted: 26 June 2018 at 12:56pm | IP Logged | 4
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"Opening hearts and minds with terms like 'demonic'? I think if when an opponent says others are hysterical and that's not just obvious and empty rhetoric there is a problem. I'll reserve terms like evil for communism".*** Hmmm... official raised eyebrow...
Rebecca you're a very interesting person. Personally I think your posts today have been perfectly lucid.(and I'm a country mile to the right of you politically) I intend to read them more carefully in the future.
Oh...and take it from a New Yorker...staying in one lane is overrated.
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14859
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Posted: 26 June 2018 at 1:21pm | IP Logged | 5
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QUOTE:
Are the children being separated from families that are coming to a legal border crossings seeking asylum? |
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There have been some documented cases, but it’s not the norm.
QUOTE:
I would assume that those saying they seek asylum would know that they need to do it through legal means or do they just use that as a fall back when they get caught by BPA. Do the families that cross illegally get the option to go back over the border? |
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Asylum claims need to be made on US soil, and an illegal border crossing doesn’t disqualify one from applying for asylum. One of the issues is that there are reports that asylum seekers at the ports of entry are being illegally prevented from setting foot on US soil to make an asylum claim.
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 15981
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Posted: 26 June 2018 at 1:31pm | IP Logged | 6
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The fifth amendment says no person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property, without due process of law.
Here's Trump's own words (the capitalisations are his also): "When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came."
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14859
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Posted: 26 June 2018 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | 7
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Is the policy to separate children or is the policy charge all adults that enter the country illegally and the consequence is children being separated due to a court ruling? Was the court ruling used as leverage to not detain families and force more catch and release?
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The Flores agreement originally was about unaccompanied minors, and it stated that minors had to be placed with family without delay and had to be kept in the least restrictive conditions possible while in federal custody. The Obama administration was actually using family detention as a reason to expedite the deportation of families and as a deterrent to illegal immigrants crossing together as a family. The courts ruled that Obama could not use family detention as a deterrent and subsequently decided that the Flores agreement meant that any minor could not be detained more than 20 days.
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Michael Sommerville Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 417
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Posted: 26 June 2018 at 6:04pm | IP Logged | 8
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Do those those that cross illegally, like the mother of the child on the time cover, who have previously been deported get sent back automatically? I have read that previous administrations would only charge after three or four illegal crossings. What would be an acceptable amount of illegal crossings be before charges?
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4635
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Posted: 26 June 2018 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | 9
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The federal debt is headed for the highest levels since World War II... thanks for the 'yuge' tax cuts Don!
Washington Post article link.
"The debt is projected to grow to 96 percent of GDP by 2028."
"The “debt-to-GDP” measurement compares the overall amount of debt held by the federal government with the size of the entire U.S. economy."
"U.N. says 18.5 million Americans are in ‘extreme poverty.’ "
Not to say I'm against tax cuts, to small businesses and working class poor.!They got pennies on the (tens of thousands of) dollars the golf resort crowd got though, and they will see services slashed more than cancelling out the tax cuts for most people. Penny-wise voters found pound foolish yet again. Wonder if he'll outdo Reagan who more than tripled the U.S. national debt? Conservative doesn't seem to include fiscal anymore, believe me, that I can tell you. :^|
(edit to fix a typo, gold to golf)
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 26 June 2018 at 9:04pm
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14859
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Posted: 26 June 2018 at 8:47pm | IP Logged | 10
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The federal debt is headed for the highest levels since World War II... thanks for the 'yuge' tax cuts Don!
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The more cynical critics of the GOP would claim this is by design. Explode the debt and use that as an excuse to cut Medicare, Medicaid and other entitlement programs.
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Paul Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2018 Location: United States Posts: 87
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Posted: 27 June 2018 at 8:11am | IP Logged | 11
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The federal debt is headed for the highest levels since World War II... thanks for the 'yuge' tax cuts Don!
Revenues are up 4% this year. You're damn right about "thanks for the tax cuts". The government is collecting record revenue. The problem is, and continues to be, with spending.
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Eric Ladd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4505
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Posted: 27 June 2018 at 8:32am | IP Logged | 12
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Regarding a passive stance to injustice. A friend sent along this quote to me from; Prof. Henry J. Cadbury, quoted in the New York Times of June 15, 1934. I'm pretty sure he was wrong. (via Angus Johnston, @studentactivism)
"By hating Hitler and trying to fight back, Jews are only increasing the severity of his policies against them. If Jews throughout the world try to instill into the minds of Hitler and his supporters recognition of the ideals for which the race stands, and if Jews appeal to the German sense of justice and the German national conscience, I am sure the problem will be solved more effectively and earlier than otherwise."
Reserving harsh terms for what you consider more harsh behavior or ideologies only moves the bar in the wrong direction.
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