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James Johnson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 2170
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| Posted: 25 June 2018 at 9:36pm | IP Logged | 1
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I believe Mel Brooks described the typical Trump voter 45 years ago:
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons. "
Blazing Saddles
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14859
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| Posted: 25 June 2018 at 11:10pm | IP Logged | 2
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Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King Jr. and the students at those lunch counters had dignity, poise and intelligence. What those people experienced was beyond simply unfair, and for so unimaginably long, but the breakthroughs came not from calling white people the devil and attacking which might be understandable, it came from a place of sanity and not lowering yourself to the level of your opponent.
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I suggest reading Representative John Lewis' graphic novel series MARCH for a better perspective of what the civil rights movement was like, and not the sanitized, whitewashed version that people like to trot out when making points like this. The protestors had to take a lot of shit because they had to.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14859
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| Posted: 25 June 2018 at 11:14pm | IP Logged | 3
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Also, since you are invoking Dr. King, here's what he had to say about your argument:
QUOTE:
| I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." |
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 26 June 2018 at 12:38am | IP Logged | 4
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So much effort to twist things in order to defend doing the things Trump doesyou supposedly hate. Calling people animals or worse than animals, congrats, check! Yelling someone down like a bully, congrats, check! This is how you become what you hate. I'm trying to help you not make a mistake and that is all. If you want to cherry pick a few extremes out of context or with hyperbole and half-truths instead of a full picture and be manipulated from outrage to outrage and react, that's just what you've got. Restaurants that won't serve this kind of person, bakers who won't make their cake for that kind of person, pure diabolical evil vs. saintly selfless good... this kind of junk is the epitome of childish.
No, Dr. King would not go and aggressively chant at someone on the street or eating a meal like a bully after identifying them as their enemy. Because that is a road to nowhere and becoming what you are supposed to be against, that is playing the stupid game. So I guess I'm now evil or less than animal too, like Nancy Pelosi, David Axelrod, Chuck Schumer, Anderson Cooper, and Chris Cuomo who have all said the things I have been saying here? I can't make you get it but I think you are making yourself a lot more enemies and for no good outcome. I'm sure another juicy provocative out of context screaming or crying child will come along any moment to justify you abrogating using your brain and common sense. Cyber social justice warriors, now I know what is meant by that term. Yeah, real revolutionaries, on virtual paper. So full of indignation, outrage, google and wikipedia. :^|
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 26 June 2018 at 12:39am
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36029
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| Posted: 26 June 2018 at 3:29am | IP Logged | 5
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Rebecca Jansen wrote:
| I'm sure another juicy provocative out of context screaming or crying child will come along any moment to justify you abrogating using your brain and common sense. Cyber social justice warriors, now I know what is meant by that term. Yeah, real revolutionaries, on virtual paper. So full of indignation, outrage, google and wikipedia. :^| |
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Right. As if a single crying child made the whole world sit up and take notice. As if there weren't 2,000+ crying children taken away from their parents who disprove your tripe about this being nothing more than whipped up hysteria.
Seriously. You go on and on and on as if you are the lone voice of sanity by playing the moderate in this discussion. As if, as Michael has continually pointed out, there is actually a middle ground between being too racist and a little racist. Between locking kids up in cages and locking them up in "tender care" facilities. From your POV it's all just opinion that is easily whipped into histrionics by the evil, manipulative media. Both sides are right and both are wrong. It's all equal. There is no one side worse than the other.
Bullshit.
You refuse to acknowledge the trauma of thousands of kids being stripped of their parents and instead continually chalk up any feeling, compassion and empathy toward them as media created "hysteria". You try to talk a good game by occasionally throwing in a slam against Trump, but feel the need to back that up in short order with a slam against the opposition to his administration so as to paint yourself as the moderate. You are the lone voice of reason because you can see "both sides". Sorry, but that's nothing but cowardice. That's not "brave" or "truthful" or "honest" at all. There are times in life where you can look at two sides and say there isn't merit in both. One actually isn't being honest, isn't being noble, and isn't right and that's OK. Stop sanctimoniously hiding behind this notion that the middle ground is actually taking a stand and then when people don't applaud you for it, claim that you're being put upon.
The middle ground is no ground. It's nothing. It's less than nothing. "If you don't stand for something, you fall for everything." Good luck with that.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14859
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| Posted: 26 June 2018 at 6:03am | IP Logged | 6
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like Nancy Pelosi, David Axelrod, Chuck Schumer, Anderson Cooper, and Chris Cuomo who have all said the things I have been saying here?
——-
You are conflating several arguments into one. They are not saying what you are saying. You have said some things they have said. Learn the difference.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 26 June 2018 at 8:03am | IP Logged | 7
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Maxine Waters and anyone who follows her calls to harrass and bully back is giving Trump and his goons exactly what they want. Your button has been pushed into becoming what they want. In case you haven't noticed there is a 39% of solid 'evil incarnate' behind them to leverage cherry-picked examples that outrage their aggrieved and self-righteous people. Their numbers are going up and solidifying over the border 'issues' and 'energizing' the mid-term vote to fight back against these radical lefties they see as threatening. Right when it should be going down over the reckless trade wars and cozying up to fascist dictators. You are targets of distraction for them to use whenever you cross into the extremes or back and juistify that kind of junk social justice acting up. It's his agenda then and no longer yours and it plays to his crowd to have hysterical bleeding heart libs attacking buses or confronting people in non-poilitcal social situations.
I can't get this through any better, you'll have to get it from someone else eventually or find out they gained seats in the mid-terms. Impossible? Like Trump becoming president was impossible? Like a 'yuge' wall is impossible? Like a tiki-torch chanting parade against removing some b.s. civil war statue erected during the civil rights push just to provoke and bully blacks was impossible?
Play straight even when it's not easy, or get bent out of shape.
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Mark Rand
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 May 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 360
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| Posted: 26 June 2018 at 8:19am | IP Logged | 8
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"So I guess I'm now evil or less than animal too, like Nancy Pelosi, David Axelrod, Chuck Schumer, Anderson Cooper, and Chris Cuomo who have all said the things I have been saying here?" ***
As far as I can tell, you're still an anti-Trump liberal, whose contempt for the President and his supporters is made plain in virtually every post.(although to be fair, I only read the last 2 pages of this epic thread) Apparently that doesn't make you any less likely to be on the receiving end of snotty replies like "learn the difference", when offering an unpopular opinion. But you and the likes of Pelosi, Schumer etc. can’t wear the badge of “EVIL” until becoming full blown conservatives…like myself. :)
For the record, it’s obvious to me at least that you are trying to help your side of the political aisle Rebecca. But as I said a week ago…many on the left have decided debate is obsolete. Matt Robespierre’s last post summed up the mentality perfectly. The good news from your perspective is, Ms Maxine has been repudiated by a few of the saner heads in the Democrat Party.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 26 June 2018 at 8:35am | IP Logged | 9
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Well, and for what it's worth just because I think Trump is a walking fubar doesn't mean he doesn't tap into some genuine and real concerns people have. I think that should be recognized, even Michael Moore got that. Whether he can actually do for them what these people think he can is something else, but there are knowable reasons why so many went and will still go that route, especially under more pressure.
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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4505
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| Posted: 26 June 2018 at 8:36am | IP Logged | 10
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Civil unrest and chaos might be the goal of the administration and therefore they are intentionally doing extremely horrible things to incite the public. That is speculation on their goals, but let's assume this is a correct assumption. Meeting a horrible act with outrage and opposition seems appropriate. Asking for a passive, non-confrontational and calm response is in fact idiotic. In some situations you must meet force with an overwhelming and opposite force to stop it. We aren't talking about protesting the placement of a landfill or opposing the construction of a mall. We are talking about something extremely horrible and scary because it can easily lead to much worse IF WE ARE PASSIVE. Besides, getting bent out of shape seems a mild price to pay if it prevents and ultimately stops the demonic practice of separating families that are seeking help.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14859
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| Posted: 26 June 2018 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 11
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QUOTE:
| As far as I can tell, you're still an anti-Trump liberal, whose contempt for the President and his supporters is made plain in virtually every post.(although to be fair, I only read the last 2 pages of this epic thread) Apparently that doesn't make you any less likely to be on the receiving end of snotty replies like "learn the difference", when offering an unpopular opinion. But you and the likes of Pelosi, Schumer etc. can’t wear the badge of “EVIL” until becoming full blown conservatives…like myself. :) |
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Or Rebecca got a "snotty" reply because she's conflating several different arguments together, and her invocation of Pelosi, Axelrod, Schumer, etc. was nonsensical.
The discussion was whether the outrage over the zero-tolerance policy was warranted, whether the outrage was manufactured by the media, and the fallacy and arrogance of her positioning herself as the middle ground.
"Well, if you don't agree with me, then you agree with Maxine Waters and disagree with all the others!" is a non-sequitur in that discussion.
That's an entirely different discussion that is, at best, tangential to the one we were having.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 26 June 2018 at 11:01am | IP Logged | 12
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Opening hearts and minds with terms like 'demonic'? I think if when an opponent says others are hysterical and that's not just obvious and empty rhetoric there is a problem. I'll reserve terms like evil for communism.
Travel ban upheld by the supreme court (after numerous tries), abortion on the way to being impossible for most of the country's women to access, will the wall not get funded? Support for Trump is not going to evaporate anytime soon from outraged people 'exposing' him.
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