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Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1956
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| Posted: 04 June 2018 at 7:17am | IP Logged | 1
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> The birther thing was ridiculous, but it was a drop in the bucket compared to what Trump gets accused of.
You know, except for the fact that Obama didn't do anything to fucking get accused of not being born in the country, except win an election in a country packed with racists.
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 04 June 2018 at 7:27am | IP Logged | 2
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You know, starting off most mornings with shouts about "witch hunts" and other nonsense makes me think of "Methinks protest too much!"
If he's not guilty, then why the constant mid-morning tweets? He has completely eroded the dignity of the Office of the President with his tweets. People expect a better standard from their leaders, but US citizens have a president who tweets insults, names and other stuff. Indefensible.
Maybe he could tweet about Puerto Rico or Detroit. Or many other issues.
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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4505
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| Posted: 04 June 2018 at 7:56am | IP Logged | 3
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Michael, I agree that people will interpret facts to support one view or another. But before we can argue if Kushner's top secret clearance allows him to meet with Natalia Veselnitskaya or doesn't allow the meeting we must consult the voting and election laws. These laws should be held in higher regard on this matter than someone's opinion about the latitude granted by a top secret security clearance. Kushner and Don Jr. were either ignorant of the laws and regulations regarding the US Presidential election process or disregarded them completely. Every country has laws regarding outside interference on national elections. I learned about this from a manga series call Sanctuary as a kid. People are free to interpret all they want, but not reporting the meeting and in fact encouraging the meeting seems to be treasonous.
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Michael Sommerville
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 417
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| Posted: 04 June 2018 at 8:39am | IP Logged | 4
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My comment about the top secret clearance is that the FBI vetted Kushner and found nothing to exclude him,I would assume treason is grounds for exclusion.
I just used that as an example of two narratives people use to support their own conclusions. I am not saying I support either, just that no one truly knows but the investigators.
I do not think defending yourself is really a sign of guilt. I do think almost anyone who was publicilly accused of some scandal/crime would vigorously deny any wrong doing.
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Fred J Chamberlain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4039
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| Posted: 04 June 2018 at 8:41am | IP Logged | 5
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There is a difference between defending oneself and hyper vigilance,
exhibited by hyperbole, grandstanding and bashing and undermining
sacred institutions.... especially troubling, when it comes from a
“leader”.
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Robin Taylor
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1260
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| Posted: 04 June 2018 at 8:58am | IP Logged | 6
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Kushner received permanent security clearance by the White House not the FBI.
Innocent people don't assert the need to pardon themselves.
RT
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Eric Ladd
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Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4505
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| Posted: 04 June 2018 at 9:37am | IP Logged | 7
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Michael, I understand your use of the clearance as an example. What I am trying to point out is as you state, portions of the population interpreting the actions of the individuals how they see fit, but do so without regard to the law. I've heard council use the "everybody does this illegal activity" statement to ignore the fact that the activity is illegal in the first place. We aren't talking about J-Walking for crying out loud. And as others have mentioned, the veracity employed to claim innocence is suspect. Today was particularly troubling when I heard Giuliani states that the President can murder in cold blood, but before they can be prosecuted you have to impeach them. I don't remember the office of the President allowing any activity, especially illegal activity, free from prosecution without achieving impeachment first. This seems like an overly broad interpretation of the powers of the President to me.
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Michael Casselman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1248
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| Posted: 04 June 2018 at 10:54am | IP Logged | 8
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'Permanent' security clearance.
Sigh... Another construct of the press.
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Michael Roberts
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Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14859
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| Posted: 04 June 2018 at 11:11am | IP Logged | 9
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'Permanent' security clearance.
Sigh... Another construct of the press.
——
How would you distinguish from “interim security clearance”?
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Michael Casselman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1248
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| Posted: 04 June 2018 at 12:09pm | IP Logged | 10
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"Active'. Perhaps "Current'. And then further by the appropriate level of clearance. No clearances are 'permanent'. There are reinvestigations and applications to continue clearances every few years, which, if are not completed in a timely manner, can result in the removal or downgrading of a clearance.
Edited by Michael Casselman on 04 June 2018 at 12:18pm
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Fred J Chamberlain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4039
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| Posted: 04 June 2018 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 11
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Weren't most of us brought up in a time that the guy
being touted as being above the law, was ALWAYS the bad
guy?
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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1356
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| Posted: 04 June 2018 at 3:16pm | IP Logged | 12
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If he's not guilty, then why the constant mid-morning
tweets? He has completely eroded the dignity of the
Office of the President with his tweets.
---
Because that is all the news wants to talk about.
He may have eroded the dignity of the Office, but you
have to admit his tactics throughout his election and
after (so far) have been very effective, it got him in
office.
His opposition would LOVE for him restore the dignity
because then they could freely direct the narrative
without his interference. He is using Social media to
get his word out.
There is no way those other Republicans could have
withstood the onslaught by tuning the other cheek.
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