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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36026
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Posted: 02 June 2018 at 1:53am | IP Logged | 1
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James Woodcock wrote:
Has there ever been a president before who has been so blatant in his business dealings driving his presidential decisions? |
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You have to dig deep, but yes. Dig up info on Warren G. Harding and the Teapot Dome Scandal in the 20's. Many fascinating books have been written on the subject, but I'd recommend this one: Link
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Thomas Woods Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1356
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Posted: 02 June 2018 at 2:01am | IP Logged | 2
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Calls of fake news are not hurting the press, it is stronger than that. Maybe my definition of news is different than most. I prefer facts over speculation. I think some commentators and pundits are seen to show their bias and that can make some question them. Personally there are some in "MSM" and "Conservative media" that I trust to give unbiased new others just make me roll my eyes.
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News can have facts and still direct a narrative that makes it "fake news". It is converted into propaganda. Journalists claim that despite the vast majority of them being left leaning, they can be objective, but they fall into group think and confirmation bias.
When a news event occurs and it fits their views, it become representative, if it does not fit their views it becomes an isolated incident, and if you try to make it representative, you are labeled a hater.
Example: if a police officer shoots a black man, it is representative of police racism. Even though studies show this is not true.
If a Muslim commits a terrorist act and you try to make that representative of a larger problem, they say it is an isolated event and to suggest otherwise makes you Islamophobic.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36026
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Posted: 02 June 2018 at 2:19am | IP Logged | 3
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I. Can't. Even.
Someone else has to take this one otherwise I'll go off.
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Michael Sommerville Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 417
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Posted: 02 June 2018 at 3:53am | IP Logged | 4
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How can you have a country as vast and diverse and say there is a American experience? I know more about what is going on in The States than I do about Ontario even though that is in my country. I do not know what it is like growing up in Eastern Canada anymore then I presume you do in The South. We know how things touch us in our personal lives and have to use other sources when things are outside of that sphere. I would never tell anyone how to feel about his or her government or anything else. I gave my opinion that the American system has elections every two years and that Trump can not destroy democracy. My opinion that Executive orders are not good because they can be overturned by the next Administration. That I think the "press" is stronger than cries of fake news. What is so outrageous about those thoughts.
I welcome thoughts on how people see Canada. It is those with an outside perspective that can see the positives and negatives. Sometimes when you live in it you only get your view. Universal health care, I love it but I understand and respect the flaws some Americans point out. Do I think they have no validity because they do not know the Canadian experience.
I have heard people talk about some Trump supporters as uneducated, ill informed, racist, and every negative thing under the sun. They live the American experience so you believe their opinions are more valid than someone who educated themselves on the issues but is not American?
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Paul Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2018 Location: United States Posts: 87
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Posted: 02 June 2018 at 8:50am | IP Logged | 5
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While I hate to fall back to the old equivalency argument,( in this case though it's apropos) - I'm always amazed by people who attack Trump and his family for their business dealings, while having completely ignored the donations to the Clinton's and the Clinton Foundation from foreign countries while she was Secretary of State. After losing the election to Trump, the Clinton Foundation's donations have fallen by 2/3rds..... Seems a bit odd to me.
Trump (nor any President) isn't required to completely divest himself from all of his businesses. He didn't have to sell off all his holdings when he became President. And frankly, why should he have to sell off a family business that he's built up over 40 years? If there's proof of a pay to play agreement, or illegitimate profiteering, then that should be prosecuted. But the fact that Trump's sons and daughter continue to make money at worldwide businesses that they were successful in long before Trump became President, doesn't indicate corruption. But just add it onto the pile of all the other narratives an innuendoes.
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Eric Ladd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4505
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Posted: 02 June 2018 at 9:41am | IP Logged | 6
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I don't think you can strip down an incident to the phrase, "if a police officer shoots a black man", claim it represents police racism and then completely ignore the circumstance, society, history, etc. etc. of that EXTEMELY complicated situation. The only thing I can agree with is that the presentation or omission of facts to suit a narrative is very possible as you continue to illustrate in your posts, Thomas. I am failing Matt's call to repond =) bigly and I am sure his post would have been more complete and thorough. But I am loosing the will to confront the willful ingorance eating through American society. By the way, claiming "studies have shown" without a link to the studies is another sure fire way of eroding credibiliity.
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14859
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Posted: 02 June 2018 at 10:10am | IP Logged | 7
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I'm always amazed by people who attack Trump and his family for their business dealings, while having completely ignored the donations to the Clinton's and the Clinton Foundation from foreign countries while she was Secretary of State. After losing the election to Trump, the Clinton Foundation's donations have fallen by 2/3rds..... Seems a bit odd to me.
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What’s odd to me is that the 2016 election has been over for more than a year and a half, and Trump supporters are still playing the “But Hillary” card. She’s not President. If we want to point out hypocrisy, it’s with the people who accuse of the Clintons of all sorts of shady dealings, yet want Trump to be free to be Trump. It’s with the small government, free market conservatives who are suddenly silent when the President is trying to prop up industries that are dying out to automation and globalization in order to win some brownie points with blue collar workers, gets us in a trade war with our allies, and blatantly pressures the NFL to deal with protesting players.
You know, but Hillary.
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Robin Taylor Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1260
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Posted: 02 June 2018 at 11:21am | IP Logged | 8
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Thomas do you know any people of color or Muslims? Do you seek out podcasts of those who have a dramatically different point of view from your own? I live in a neighbourhood where within blocks of each other there is a mosque an orthodox church and a temple. I interact with all of these communities. I have a good friend and co-worker who is in a transition from one gender to another. I have family that are first nations who face systematic racism every single moment of every single day in this country.
I listen to their stories and I compare them to my own experience. I have the bible, the torah, and the quran (which are all incredibly similar FYI)
I have personally experienced the proceeds of white male privilege while dealing with police, who appeared to be expecting a person of color when they stopped me. When they saw who and what I was their demeanor changed in a blink.
More terrorism has occurred in North America from white radicalized men than has from any other source. Islam is like every other religion and has an incredibly massive global population, Any one can become fundamentalist in any faith. To say Islam is the source of terror in the world is grossly uninformed. To say black men are not over represented in police shootings while white men can commit mass shootings and walk to a police car is absurd.
I feel like you are long on research and short on personal connection to people who are oppressed daily by societal norms you may not be even aware of. What's your perspective on the #metoo movement?
When you walk through your life, what makes you afraid every day?
RT
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4635
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Posted: 02 June 2018 at 11:33am | IP Logged | 9
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I think it was the Canadian commedian Norm McDonald who said, "Americans disliked Hillary Clinton so much they elected someone they liked even less!"
I think news should be boring, really boring, and not entertaining. I hate all the talking heads blathering on for hours usually about just one 'story' often with the least impact on most people. Meanwhile you wonder what news you aren't getting? So many news shows have waterskiing squirrels and question of the day and even cooking segments too. But then you get some really boring news like on PBS and they want to cut the funding for that, or Trump includes the BBC, Associated Press and NPR as one of the vast media conspiracy against him.
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Paul Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2018 Location: United States Posts: 87
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Posted: 02 June 2018 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 10
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Michael Roberts: What’s odd to me is that the 2016 election has been over for more than a year and a half, and Trump supporters are still playing the “But Hillary” card. She’s not President. If we want to point out hypocrisy, it’s with the people who accuse of the Clintons of all sorts of shady dealings, yet want Trump to be free to be Trump. It’s with the small government, free market conservatives who are suddenly silent when the President is trying to prop up industries that are dying out to automation and globalization in order to win some brownie points with blue collar workers, gets us in a trade war with our allies, and blatantly pressures the NFL to deal with protesting players.
You know, but Hillary.
You're missing the point. The point is that all during the years preceding and up to the election, the actions of Hillary, (of whom there is far more evidence of financial irregularities- among other things) was overlooked and tolerated. She was never held to the same standard that Trump is being held to.
If there's any illegal financial enrichment by government officials, throw the book at them. Be they Trump, Republicans, or Democrats. Trump has to be acutely aware of this. I don't want "Trump to be free to be Trump". I want him to follow the law. But I also expect him to be treated the same as other politicians.
But if you're not at least a little disturbed by the actions of Hillary, and the way it was handled by the Justice Department, and the double standard that seemed to be applied to her, then I'm not sure what to say. And that the election was a year and a half ago is irrelevant to the point. The fact that she was Secretary of State, and very nearly President, while her financial dealings weren't scrutinized more fully is disturbing to say the least.
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Dave Kopperman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3421
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Posted: 02 June 2018 at 12:13pm | IP Logged | 11
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Paul Buchanan wrote:
She was never held to the same standard that Trump is being held to. |
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You're right. She was held to a much, much higher standard.
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Paul Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2018 Location: United States Posts: 87
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Posted: 02 June 2018 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | 12
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Paul Buchanan wrote:
She was never held to the same standard that Trump is being held to. |
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You're right. She was held to a much, much higher standard.
How are things on Bizarro World today?
Edited by Paul Buchanan on 02 June 2018 at 5:53pm
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