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Michael Sommerville Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 417
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Posted: 01 June 2018 at 12:09am | IP Logged | 1
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People did not change after one election and a new President. More people did not become bigoted after Trump, it is just seen and reported more due to social media and being focused on. Reported incidences may be up but that only proves more people are not tolerating it and are speaking up, not that it is more frequent. I have yet to hear a victim of a racist incident say this has never happened before, what I hear is nothing has changed.
Calls of fake news are not hurting the press, it is stronger than that. Maybe my definition of news is different than most. I prefer facts over speculation. I think some commentators and pundits are seen to show their bias and that can make some question them. Personally there are some in "MSM" and "Conservative media" that I trust to give unbiased new others just make me roll my eyes.
I will concede trade disputes can be costly and if mishandled can affect economies for a longer period of time. Maybe it is the devil in me that thinks a American trade dispute with China can better Canada's trade with China.
Both parties in the US need to get some limits on those Executive orders, those are the real dangers. They take away the power of working towards a compromise. Some of what Trump reversed would not be possible if it was not put in place with Obama's Executive order.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
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Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36026
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Posted: 01 June 2018 at 12:22am | IP Logged | 2
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I have to know...you're speaking as a Canadian, right Michael? Like, you don't live here in the States and, therefore, get your knowledge from (at best) second hand accounts?
I ask because you seem to come at this question as someone who has some intimate knowledge of the situation, someone who deals with Trump on a day-to-day basis like we Americans do. As if sharing a boarder with us gives you a unique insight into who we are. Anecdote: I had a Canadian friend tell me after 9/11 that America was going to descend into anarchy based on nothing but those attacks and Bush who, as we all have come to learn, is not Trump. But he was certain of it all the same because...why? He didn't live here. I countered that we wouldn't devolve into anarchy because of who we were. I was right, we didn't, but I can't say the same now based on living here in nearly the same situation. Why? Because I, like every American, live it every day.
But I get the sneaking suspicion that you're someone who assumes the best, doesn't like the worst, but at the end of the day says it's all good and things will work out because you don't live here. Right? I mean, I wouldn't try to speak to the politics of Canada even though as a Minnesotan I knew a whole lot more about them than the majority of Americans simply because I lived in a state on the border. I wouldn't insert myself into French politics, as nutty as they are, simply because I can, nor would I tell someone from England that their entire system is FUBAR simply because it's different from mine. Opinion guys, not fact...but it's true! ;)
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
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Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36026
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Posted: 01 June 2018 at 12:40am | IP Logged | 3
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Michael Sommerville wrote:
Some of what Trump reversed would not be possible if it was not put in place with Obama's Executive order. |
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Huh? WTF does this mean? And the assumption is that what Obama did had to be reversed by Trump because it was "wrong"? As a Canadian, tell me how what Obama wrote as an Executive Order was bad for the US.
Waiting...
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Fred J Chamberlain Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4039
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Posted: 01 June 2018 at 6:47am | IP Logged | 4
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Micheal: People did not change after one election and a new President. More people did not become bigoted after Trump, it is just seen and reported more due to social media and being focused on. Reported incidences may be up but that only proves more people are not tolerating it and are speaking up, not that it is more frequent. I have yet to hear a victim of a racist incident say this has never happened before, what I hear is nothing has changed.
Your argument doesn't stand. "Only proves more people are not tolerating it", is a jump. From my perspective, it appears that the intolerant fools, while having always been intolerant, have become emboldened by the nitwit in charge. Statistics and anecdotal evidence indicate that there has been a significant increase. To posit that this is due to lack of tolerance on the victims' part is flawed logic.
Individuals on both sides have become more reactionary.
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Robin Taylor Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1260
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Posted: 01 June 2018 at 9:10am | IP Logged | 5
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As a Canadian, these are dark times for our two countries. The trade war that Trump has started will hurt the average person in both countries and drive a wedge between the US and it's longest standing ally.
I hope this madness has some end in sight, but it is hard to have hope. I have nothing but sympathy for my friends in US who are living this.
RT
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Charles Valderrama Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4849
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Posted: 01 June 2018 at 11:39am | IP Logged | 6
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People did not change after one election and a new President.
***** Sorry, not buying that... after the election, people did change. The multiple marches around the country (and in some cases, around the world) spoke volumes. Others chose NOT to be so 'shy' about their bigotry and views on immigrants.
It's been a long time since people have been so politically motivated.
-C!
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4635
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Posted: 01 June 2018 at 12:09pm | IP Logged | 7
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I have lived and worked in the U.S., have friends and family etc. etc. and over half the tv and radio stations where I am are U.S. based. I have been read the 'stay out of this Canadian' thing, even saw a U.S. friend verbally attacked for wearing a Canada sweatshirt he picked up while in Canada... all I can say is that if Canada is on the list of untrustworthy foreigners, perhaps more than Russia right now, then you is gots big problems 'Merica!
Largest trade partner = Canada. I hope Trudeau understands that Trump will be gone in a New York minute once his deal-maker bluffery starts fubaring the finances of people who up to now have nervously backed him because of the sweet tax cuts.
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Jason Czeskleba Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004 Posts: 4639
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Posted: 01 June 2018 at 12:12pm | IP Logged | 8
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Michael Sommerville wrote:
Calls of fake news are not hurting the press, it is stronger than that. |
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Americans' trust in the news media is at an all-time low... a quick google will find a variety of polls establishing that. It's hardly unreasonable to conclude that having a US President who consistently denies facts and falsely accuses the media of lying is a contributory factor to this. The press is most definitely hurt if its credibility is undermined.
I think this is the saddest thing in American politics today. People used to agree on facts but disagree on what to do about them. But now a sizable amount of Americans are rejecting facts outright.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 01 June 2018 at 12:13pm
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Michael Sommerville Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 417
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Posted: 01 June 2018 at 5:15pm | IP Logged | 9
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Matt, once again I must not have been clear. I do not believe I gave any opinion on the substance of any Executive orders. Where did I say that Obama's Executive orders were wrong. I just said that they can be reversed, it is a problem, that is WTF i mean. DACA was a temporary fix for an issue. It may be reversed because nothing was done in 4 years to make a law. Climate change reversals happened because they were put in place with executive order. Trump is using it to a great degree and his will be reversed if the next President chooses. Laws are stronger than orders.
Let me understand, I can not have an informed opinion on anything in America because I do not live there? I do not have access to the same public information? You honestly think Canadians know less about America because there is an imaginary line. That line does not cut off information. Many Americans would not know there was a Quebec because Canadian news is not international news. You have your personal knowledge of you interactions, the rest of your information is "(at best) second hand accounts" and comes from the same news sources we Canadians get.
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4635
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Posted: 01 June 2018 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | 10
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I'm always happy to hear criticisms of Canada and it's governments, how does anything get better otherwise? Robert Kennedy Jr. came up and lectured us about the environment once and I remember some people thinking he had no right but I think being open to a variety of thoughtful viewpoints is good for any country.
I have seen things I like about U.S. systems and said so in Canada probably more than vice-versa, but I think the U.S. really needs to put more stringent and detailed conflict of interest protections in, and I first thought this beginning with Bill Clinton, but it really became obvious when Bush Jr. was using tax dollars to buy record levels of fuel reserves for the military when it was at a record per barrel price that would directly benefit the Bush family.
Today Trump said what a nice letter Kim Jung-Un wrote him then admitted he hadn't opened it yet. This character and his chief of spies he is eager to meet with, but the Canadian Prime-Minister gets new restrictions before he'll meet to try to save the NAFTA only Trump opened and put in jeopardy. Very rude. He's also had time for Russians coming into the U.S. who were banned and the U.S. media only found out about them when Russian media covered it. Warning, danger, danger Will Robinson.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
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Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36026
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Posted: 02 June 2018 at 12:30am | IP Logged | 11
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Michael Sommerville wrote:
Let me understand, I can not have an informed opinion on anything in America because I do not live there? I do not have access to the same public information? You honestly think Canadians know less about America because there is an imaginary line. |
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I can have all the facts at my fingertips about France, Belgium, Germany, Mexico and, yes, Canada but that still doesn't mean I understand what it is to grow up and live in those countries. I just don't. To say that a litany of facts from internet research, news and broadcasts that cross boarders means that you are as informed about living as an American as I am is, I'm sorry, ludicrous.
Much of your commentary here and in other threads speaks as if you know the American experience and then what do you tell us to do? Eh. Doesn't matter. No new wars are being fought. The press is still free. Don't worry about it. Said from a comfortable chair at a computer in another country. So, yeah, sorry but I'll take my experience and those of others living in this society over someone who does armchair research and says it's the same thing. I'd never in a million years presume to tell a Canadian how they should feel about their government or tell an Englishman that everything will be hunky dory amidst their own internal struggle with many of the same issues we're facing in the US. I just wouldn't. But feel free to share your opinion however you see fit. I just find it odd especially in the way you choose to couch it.
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7824
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Posted: 02 June 2018 at 12:38am | IP Logged | 12
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Interesting that yesterday, Visa went down over a lot of Europe, bumping this looming trade war into an also ran story.
I watch. Fair amount of CNN & they seem to go for Fart a lot. But where is the political traction that says ‘We know what this guy is doing & we have to stop it’? Has there ever been a president before who has been so blatant in his business dealings driving his presidential decisions?
& I’m not talking about Bush & what happened after Iraq. I think that pales in to insignificance compared to what Fart is doing. This guy would start world war 3 if he could get a profit. In fact, I’m not sure that isn’t his plan
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