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Laren Farmer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 975
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| Posted: 21 August 2015 at 7:46am | IP Logged | 1
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Well, the people that consent to be governed also consent to follow the laws their governments enact. Like their immigration laws.
Also, though you did state you are against military adventurism...that is the logical progression to your position...unless you want every single person on the planet to come live within the present borders of the United States and leave the rest of the world a human-free zone.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133555
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| Posted: 21 August 2015 at 7:56am | IP Logged | 2
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Well, the people that consent to be governed also consent to follow the laws their governments enact. Like their immigration laws. •• I am sure there are some who turn that inside out. "Not my country, so I don't have to obey their laws"
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 21 August 2015 at 9:20am | IP Logged | 3
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I have a question. If someone entered this country illegally. How could they become a US citizen ? Upon applying wouldn't they be deported because of illegally entering the country ?
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8149
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| Posted: 21 August 2015 at 9:38am | IP Logged | 4
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If I'm not mistaken, that's what the whole "amnesty" discussion is about. Otherwise there's no way to instantly convert to legal status.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 21 August 2015 at 9:41am | IP Logged | 5
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Thank you Vinny
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3517
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| Posted: 21 August 2015 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 6
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The reason I would reject military adventurism is that its self-defeating. You can't protect someone's rights (especially their right to life) by killing them.
And government by the consent of the governed and government as the vehicle of protecting and ensuring rights is at the heart of this. To wit, who owns the land and its resources in the United States? If I own my land, then I should be the one who decides who is allowed to live on it, and who is trespassing or squatting. If the government claims that right, they are essentially claiming ownership of the land. They've moved from protecting my rights and the rights of the alien on my land to defining and impinging upon those rights.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133555
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| Posted: 21 August 2015 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 7
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Even American liberal needs to spend a year or two in other "democratic" countries around the world! They'd come back amazed at how loosey-goosey things are in this country!
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Marc Foxx
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5587
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| Posted: 21 August 2015 at 3:35pm | IP Logged | 8
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Cesar Millan ("The Dog Whisperer") was an illegal immigrant - there was a documentary about him on one of the National Geographic channels - he came across in the late 80's and I think he
got his resident status during one of the previous amnesties.
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Brandon Frye
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 November 2004
Posts: 1322
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| Posted: 21 August 2015 at 5:19pm | IP Logged | 9
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In the issue of immigration, it's interesting to note that Bernie Sanders is actually opposed to 'open borders'
In the second article, Sanders states that open borders was a Koch brothers proposal (!?) and that it's the "right-wing" who wants open borders.
Whenever I have even dared to suggest 'open borders' might not be a good idea, the ones who would immediately decide I was a "racist" who "hates immigrants" (because apparently, if you are against illegal immigration, you must be against all immigration) were always liberal Democrats.
Now, the candidate who considers himself a democratic socialist is not only saying open borders are not a good idea but suggesting it's something the GOP wants?
Did I just fall through that looking glass?
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3517
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| Posted: 21 August 2015 at 10:35pm | IP Logged | 10
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The GOP, particularly in border states like Arizona and Texas, wants the status quo. They recognize the need in those states for a source of cheap labor. Deportation is expensive and would exhaust that supply. Amnesty would require workers to be paid and cared for according to U.S. standards. So by an large they want to keep the border porous, but maintain immigrants as an underclass. Their other big problem with amnesty, of course, is that by and large they vote the other way.
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