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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133551
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| Posted: 08 June 2015 at 2:54am | IP Logged | 1
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Here's a question: if one is, for instance, a "woman trapped in the body of a man," how would one know? Not having at any time been a woman, what is the frame of reference? +++ If the genders don't think differently and gender is not in the mind, there couldn't be any. But if the genders do think differently and gender is in the mind, then the process would, at first, be simply recognizing one doesn't think like the other men. Then recognizing a profound identification with the way women think would bring on that "trapped" feeling: "I belong with them". ** Traditionally, women are imagined to "think differently" because they are seen as being more at the mercy of their hormones than are men. But that cannot be the case in a "transgender," can it? Not before treatment, anyway. There seems to be a whole lot of mythology, and not a lot of science, here. Another of my gal pals had an abortion when she was in her twenties. The aborted fetus was female. Decades later, when she told her by then adult son about this, he immediately declared this must be why he felt himself "a woman trapped in a man's body."
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133551
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| Posted: 08 June 2015 at 3:07am | IP Logged | 2
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I believe everybody is bisexual. I believe societal dogma has a heavy influence on what is acceptable.•• Sounds like you're reading your own personal microcosm as representative of the macrocosm. Rarely a good idea.
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John M. Jackson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 206
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| Posted: 08 June 2015 at 3:40am | IP Logged | 3
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"Sounds like you're reading your own personal microcosm as representative of the macrocosm. Rarely a good idea."
Probably so. Everybody says I live in my own little world.
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Bill Pope
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 May 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 21
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| Posted: 08 June 2015 at 4:07am | IP Logged | 4
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Making friends is a pretty important part of helping others with physical or social inhibitions become comfortable in their own skin. Without potentially turning those, in such situations into future martyrs, or antagonists.
This topic feels simple, and yet confounding.
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4946
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| Posted: 08 June 2015 at 4:12am | IP Logged | 5
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People suffering with Body Integrity Identity Disorder feel that they would be happier living as a disabled person or an amputee. Why is this a disorder yet being transgendered is no longer deemed a mental illness?
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Bill Pope
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 May 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 21
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| Posted: 08 June 2015 at 4:27am | IP Logged | 6
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Who wants to be mentally ill...?
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4946
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| Posted: 08 June 2015 at 4:31am | IP Logged | 7
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Nobody? This is why there are medical practitioners who try to get rid of illness. Not support it.
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Paul Simpson Simpson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 939
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| Posted: 08 June 2015 at 5:52am | IP Logged | 8
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David....I'm not arrogant because I have a negative opinion of Shallow people..A trait she has displayed on national TV for all to see.There is no argument about that.Shallow people don't generally work the phones at a crisis center.I couldn't care less if she's a he or she.Changing your gender does not suddenly make you a better person. Your statement about whether or not I do the crisis line thing is not a fair statement. I cannot relate to their crisis.I have epilepsy so I can't work.I volunteer at the animal shelter,where we found my Ellie,and the food kitchen,love the people I get to meet, at least twice a week to fill my time with something that makes me feel good about myself and is productive to the community.I forget my condition and the restrictions put on me for awhile.I do all of this while not being able to drive. I used to attend epilepsy support groups,but it's not feasible now,transportation wise. I was useful there because I went through what they have.I do still message on a facebook group though. Oh.....I'm not telepathic,just expressing a opinion.The same opinion I have read all down this thread.That's what happens all the time on this forum.
Edited by Paul Simpson Simpson on 08 June 2015 at 6:05am
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 08 June 2015 at 5:53am | IP Logged | 9
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I believe in reality that if someone feels they are the wrong gender, and there are safe ways to switch, they can switch and more power to them. If it makes them happy, and it hurts no one else, then it should be no one else's concern.
But, getting back to Mr. Byrne's original topic... if one chooses to keep his penis, then he's a man. Accoutrements and surgery can address matters to a degree... but I think that (notwithstanding any accidents or unintentional occurrences), people with penises are men and people with vaginas are women. Breasts don't matter, facial hair doesn't matter.
If one wants to have a penis but otherwise have the aspects of a woman, then I think it's just an intense case of transvestitism. That's perfectly fine as well... but perhaps honesty should be the best policy.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133551
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| Posted: 08 June 2015 at 6:39am | IP Logged | 10
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…people with penises are men and people with vaginas …•• And, let's be really hard hearted about this for a moment: a penis is not a roll of flesh stitched together by a doctor, and a vagina is not an open wound that is prevented from healing. As I think I have made clear many times, my whole "philosophy" comes down to Consenting Adults. Let people be and do whatever they want, as long as nobody gets hurt. But the sideshow surrounding Jenner, and some of the choices he seems to be making -- this is bread and circuses.
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Jeremy Simington
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 687
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| Posted: 08 June 2015 at 6:52am | IP Logged | 11
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Here is a key question for me: What is the harm in identifying a person by whatever gender they identify as? If a person with two X chromosomes and a vagina has a male gender identity, what is the harm in us (the public) viewing and treating that person as a man?
I see a lot of concern about bathrooms. Really? Why is there not an issue about gay people using the same bathroom as same-gendered straight people?
Aside from the bathroom issue, which is really just a matter of minding your own business in a public toilet (usually the best policy that all rational people I know follow anyway), what are the issues? Someone please lay out a rational explanation (i.e., one that doesn't rely on "ewww, icky" or "yeah, they're nuts").
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Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9006
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| Posted: 08 June 2015 at 7:06am | IP Logged | 12
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Being gay or transgender is as much of a choice as being white or black.
And before someone says that transgender are making the choice to change their sex, that's not what being transgender means. Even if they never actually go through the process of having an operation, that doesn't make them any less transgender than, say, Andreja Pejic.
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Topic Closed)
