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Paul Simpson Simpson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 939
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | 1
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My problem with this story from the beginning has been the attempt to turn this person into some kind of role model for others. Watch any episode of The Soup that shows bits from her family's show and it is clear this person is a train wreak.That fact has nothing to do with his gender identity.A real role model would be working crisis lines and helping with support groups.Jenner will do none of these things.He will star in a show and makes lots of money.Again not a role model.Plus I just can't take Jenner seriously,despite my full support for people going through gender identity issues.
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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3117
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 3:54pm | IP Logged | 2
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Paul, which crisis line do you volunteer for? Or which support group do you help?
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Bill Guerra
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 March 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1072
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | 3
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It all comes off as a big farce to me, but I was prepared to give him credit if he went all the way and had the penis removal done. It's not going to be done? I'm back to my "it's all a farce" stance.
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John M. Jackson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 206
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | 4
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The problem with the TV show and any "courage" awards he might receive is that it could pressure him to go through with it even though he might develop doubts later.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14864
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 4:42pm | IP Logged | 5
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It all comes off as a big farce to me, but I was prepared to give him credit if he went all the way and had the penis removal done
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What difference does having a penis make? I find it ridiculous that people seem to think their gender identity is somehow contained in their genitalia. If you lost your penis in an accident tomorrow, would you cease thinking of yourself as a man? However much gender reassignment would aid in matching one's gender identity, it still requires someone to amputate a piece of their body, so I can understand not going through with it.
One's gender identity is rooted in one's brain. There are several studies out there providing evidence from post-mortem examinations and brain scans that trans men (people assigned female at birth and who have a gender identity as male) share anatomical brain similarities with gender-congruent men and trans women share anatomical brain similarities with gender-congruent women.
The brain and the body develop at different stages in the womb. It is not inconceivable to think that the hormones that signal a fetus to develop as a male or female show up in different amounts at critical points, so that the brain develops as one gender and the body develops as another. And let's not forget the cases where the genitalia of a newborn child is ambiguous at birth, and the doctors and parents just pick one.
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Paul Simpson Simpson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 939
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 6:08pm | IP Logged | 6
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David,I'm not being held up as a role model for gender identity as she is.I'm not transgendered so I can't exactly council someone about the problems of gender identity.I think it would be the height of arrogance and ignorance for me to claim I can help a person who I have no idea what they are going through.I still stand by my opinions of Jenner.She's a greedy train wreak no matter what sex she is.This all is one big advertisement for her new show on E. Criticism of Jenner is not criticism of transsexual/transgendered people.
Edited by Paul Simpson Simpson on 07 June 2015 at 6:10pm
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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3117
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 6:31pm | IP Logged | 7
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It's not only the height of arrogance to criticize someone for not doing something you would never do yourself, it's also obnoxious as all hell.
What's your source about Jenner's volunteer activities, for that matter? For all we know, she's been volunteering at trans halfway houses for decades. If you're so concerned about the hole being left by Jenner, nothing is stopping you from volunteering yourself. It doesn't require being trans -- you can stuff envelopes.
You don't know anything about her motives, unless you're displaying the kind of mind-reading abilities I thought were discouraged in this forum. As far as I'm concerned, if someone goes through the trauma of a sex change solely to be on TV, fine, let 'em be on TV if they want it so bad.
BTW, I agree with the poster who said Jenner's association with the Kardasahian Exploitation Industrial Complex is enough to disqualify her from heroism.
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Shaun Barry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6934
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 7:03pm | IP Logged | 8
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First of all, considering there are still places in America and all over the world where Jenner could conceivably be KILLED for her transitioning, yeah, I'd still call her courageous, and an heroic role model for those trying to cope with the same struggles. Plus, with all of the ugly comments already thrown her way (and some right here on this thread), she will have nothing but an uphill battle for the rest of her life.
Secondly, I believe I read a quote or response from Jenner, regarding turning her transgender journey into an E! TV show. She essentially replied with, "I'm still a parent, I still need to eat, and I still need to pay the bills."
Works for me.
Edited by Shaun Barry on 07 June 2015 at 7:06pm
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 7:28pm | IP Logged | 9
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I applaud Caitlyn for going public. Hopefully this will help people be more accepting of transgender people. I wish that she wasn't connected to the Kardashians at all. It is creating a circus atmosphere around the situation.
My family has been paying close attention to what's been going on. From the first moment Bruce announced he gender identified as a woman. Especially my daughter Caitlin. About a year ago she came out to us that she is transgender. So obviously this subject is cutting close to home.
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Jesus Garcia
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 April 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 2414
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 7:34pm | IP Logged | 10
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I've been questioning this very thing. I dunno and I don't need to know (just like Natasha!).
Every person is unique.
Whatever Bruce/Caitlyn is going through, I hope it leads to happiness.
Life is short, there is no god, BUT there could be an afterlife. Be happy now because you don't know what's coming up in in the next life.
All that being said, unless those Vanity Fair pictures are retouched, that's a damn fine looking 65-year old woman. She could could walk into any bar on this continent and get male attention.
Hell ... I'd buy her a drink!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 7:51pm | IP Logged | 11
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I applaud Caitlyn for going public. Hopefully this will help people be more accepting of transgender people. I wish that she wasn't connected to the Kardashians at all. It is creating a circus atmosphere around the situation. ••• Which was generated by the decision to "go public." Jenner has not been thrust into the spotlight -- not unless a leap counts as a thrust.
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Shaun Barry
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Joined: 08 December 2008
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Posts: 6934
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 7:52pm | IP Logged | 12
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And I would imagine keeping the penis also goes back to another quote I read from Jenner, stating that although she always wanted to be a woman, it doesn't mean she now wants to be with men... she still loves women and wants to continue to be with them.
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