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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133571
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | 1
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Okay, I really wanted to avoid this whole topic, but as of now I am officially confused.I consider myself a pretty worldly guy. Not much surprises me. But I just read that "Caitlyn" is foregoing the, ah, unkindest cut of all. (She's keeping his penis.) So... 'splain this one to me. How does this make "her" something other/more than a man in drag? Seriously! Enquiring minds want to know!
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Michael Hogan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2064
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 2
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Dingdingdingdingding!!! Aaaand, we HAVE a winner!
Thanks,JB; I was beginning to think that I was the only one who had
realized that.
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Matthew Wilkie
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 March 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1139
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 2:28pm | IP Logged | 3
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How does this make "her" something other/more than a man in drag?
* * *
Because she is living her life as a woman? That's a bit different to being a "man in drag".
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Rich Marzullo
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 January 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 2756
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 4
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Isn't that intrinsically difficult if you have all of the parts of a man?
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John M. Jackson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 206
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 2:33pm | IP Logged | 5
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Michael, shouldn't that be:
"Dingdongdingdongding!!! Aaaand, we HAVE a weiner!" :P
In all seriousness, though, I would guess he/she has been taking hormones, thus developing breasts.
Personally, I believe it is a mental illness, but people only have one life to live so who am I to judge as long as they don't hurt anyone but themselves.
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Brian J Nelson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 August 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 365
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 2:44pm | IP Logged | 6
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Exactly what Matthew said. Let me simply it a bit. Going drag is often a temporary thing. What I mean is that those in drag may go fully into a character while they are in drag, when the costuming comes off, the original personality comes back to the front. People may do drag for numerous reasons, but it generally isn't about specific gender identity.
In Caitlin's case, she identifies as a woman. It isn't just the makeup and outfits. She is going through augmentation and hormone therapy. Though she has a penis, every moment of her life she will continue to think of herself as a woman which is something that should be respected by others.
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Ronald Joseph
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1784
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 2:55pm | IP Logged | 7
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...
Edited by Ronald Joseph on 11 June 2015 at 9:54am
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Matthew Wilkie
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 March 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1139
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | 8
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... every moment of her life she will continue to think of herself as a woman which is something that should be respected by others.
* * *
Exactly.
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John M. Jackson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 206
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | 9
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I can respect somebody, but that doesn't mean I should encourage them.
I remember when Jeffrey Catherine Jones transitioned into a woman. A great artist and a great person. But from what I understand he later regretted the decision and had a nervous breakdown.
I view it as a form of body dysmorphia.
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Michael Casselman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1255
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | 10
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All I see when I look at Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner is an insecure person standing at the periphery of the limelight who feels the need to flex their pop-culture standing by leveraging a change such as this simply to get into the limelight once again.
The day the Vanity Fair picture came out, I wondered if there was another shoe yet to drop... of course, within hours it was confirmed that there would be an accompanying E Network series to follow Caitlyns journey. Purely manufactured drama to make money.
And that same day... anyone who didn't come out in 100%, fawning, tripping over themselves congratulatory messages found themselves labeled as homophobes, transphobes, and other trumped-up terms, all but for uttering (either seriously or in jest via memes) that they'd always consider himself "Bruce" regardless of the changes... a feeling also held by his/her own Mom.
It's not his/her change that sickens me... it's the fakeness of the reception, coverage and sincerity of the media covering it.
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Laren Farmer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 975
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | 11
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I have to say the whole issue has always confused me...which I would assume is natural.
On the one hand, I'm all for adults living their lives as they want as long as it harms nobody else.
But I'm not a doctor and have no understanding of the mindset of transgendered individuals.
If this is a normal but rare condition that is to be dealt with by accepting the person's preferred gender (and my apologies if I'm phrasing that wrong....as I don't know if it's supposed to be preferred gender or true gender or whatever)...then I'm all for that.
But I am bothered by the fact that, if that is the case, that the medical profession hasn't done a better job of really shouting the message from the rafters and educating the general public that this is not a mental illness (as many critics of the transgendered believe).
So...has anyone proven one way or another if this is a condition that should be accepted or no? I'm not being sarcastic...I REALLY don't know.
If there's no definitive answer yet, then I think people shouldn't be so quick to accept or condemn.
If there is a definitive answer...then the people who have that answer should be making their case a hell of a lot more strongly.
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Brian O'Neill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 November 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 1964
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| Posted: 07 June 2015 at 3:31pm | IP Logged | 12
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If Jenner had no connection with the Kreepy Kooky Kardashians, s/he never would have returned to the media spotlight, after years of post-Olympic obscurity(Yes, Bruce Jenner was on 'CHiPs' for a little while, but that was a few decades, and marriages, ago.) The 'Kardahian Konnection' made Jenner newsworthy again, and like the girls, Jenner has figured out how to play the game and generate publicity. Michael Casselmanmakes a good point above about the 'fakeness' of it all.' 'Oh, Bruce is so distraught about his transition, he was involved in a car accident...but he still tried to help. How courageous!' Conveniently, that reckless driving charge disappeared, along with 'Bruce'.
When I heard that the male 'Jenner'talia was left intact, that's when I knew this was more manufactured bullshit.
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Topic Closed)
