| Author |
|
David Poole
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 294
|
| Posted: 25 April 2014 at 10:37am | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
"North vs South
That's the part of this debate that upsets you?"
**
What upsets me is that anyone's point of view is dismissed so nonchalantly and written off before being heard (for instance "those red-state southern hillbillies"). That really poisons the well for anyone just tarred with that brush who may have been trying to pick up any other point you were trying to make. I may or may not be an ignorant hillbilly, but my latitude has nothing to do with it!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Don Zomberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 November 2005
Posts: 2355
|
| Posted: 25 April 2014 at 11:26am | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
As has been stated before on the Forum, David, when a car kills someone, it's because it was improperly used. When a gun kills someone, it's doing exactly what it was designed to do.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7593
|
| Posted: 25 April 2014 at 11:26am | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
Since it was my comment that you initially responded to: I very specifically said states, not people. If you're taking offense on behalf of your state, so be it. I stand behind my comment.
You think it's unfair to draw a parallel to what happened before and during the Civil War? I think it's very appropriate. The 'red states' have been reactionary on virtually every social issue. Which states were the last to accept racial equality? Which states had the strongest opposition to the ERA? Which states are currently the most opposed to marriage equality?
Purely coincidental that these are the same states that formed the Confederacy?
I have no doubt that there are reasonable, moderate, even liberal folks in the 'red states' just as I have no doubt that there are religious zealots, gun nuts and extreme reactionary conservatives in the 'blue states'. The difference is here they're a minority and they don't carry much weight; in the 'red states', they seem to be the ones shaping policy.
If this were only a local/state issue, I'd probably just shrug my shoulders. Let Georgia lay in the bed it makes. But this rolls over onto a national level, and that's where my exasperation comes from.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35770
|
| Posted: 25 April 2014 at 11:28am | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
David Poole wrote:
| For example, Texas isn't anywhere near as bad as I expected it would be. It comes in 24th out of 50 for per capita deaths, but I guarantee it's in the top 5 for gun ownership per capita. |
|
|
Not even close. Per capita based on total number of background checks performed in 2012, they rank 31. Link
See what you did there? You rail on others for "regional bias" and then guarantee Texas has the most legal guns per capita based on...
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3032
|
| Posted: 25 April 2014 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
I wonder how many people who argue that since gun violence can never be eradicated, there's no point to any regulation, if they feel the same way about abortion.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Don Zomberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 November 2005
Posts: 2355
|
| Posted: 25 April 2014 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
Funny how those same folks tend to think that if we allow gays to marry, we'll eventually have adults marrying children, or animals, etc, yet they never take their own loony gun arguments to such a degree. If people can own assault weapons with high capacity clips, should we worry that folks will eventually want to own air to surface missiles, grenade launchers, and tanks?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
David Poole
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 294
|
| Posted: 25 April 2014 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
Matt, the number of background checks performed in 2012 doesn't tell you how many guns were already in Texas, or how many were sold by bypassing the system. It's a snapshot, and I would still be amazed if their actual per capita gun ownership isn't much, much higher than 31st in the nation.
Thom, what does the percentage have to be for a state to earn its way out of your disregard? And should all the 'blues' just move to a blue state, or should they stay where they're at and make the most out of their home? Red state - blue state falls right into the polarization of American politics, and that's a lose-lose. If it becomes a tug-of-war, win or lose proposition, both sides dig in and nothing gets done. Why not say, "Hey, man, I think you're effing nuts to keep these guns around, but what can we do to get this 10.1 down to a 5?" You'd realize real results a lot faster.
Listen, this has obviously touched a nerve with me. This is something I live with and I see the political dynamics shifting in NC, and by extension the New South all the time, and I have seen progress that shouldn't be poo-poo-ed by outsiders looking in. Your stereotypes are incorrect. I grew up in an insular rural county that was as bible belt as you could get. Our best and brightest (think top ten out of the graduating classes) invariably move to the triangle or Charlotte. When you see social referendums come up, the results always look like this: NC gay marriage referendum vote map So, that means all the social conservatives are evil, right? No, by and large they are good people who believe they are doing 'right'. And the urbanization and migration and progress will eventually win out, but it actually stalls the process when the whole area gets tarred with that brush, and told what to do or looked down on by someone outside state lines. As exasperating as it is, you do get more flies with honey than vinegar.
I have a weekend to get to, so I hope everybody has a good one. Really, truly, much respect to all and I hope that's at least a little mutual.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132599
|
| Posted: 25 April 2014 at 1:25pm | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
Funny how those same folks tend to think that if we allow gays to marry, we'll eventually have adults marrying children, or animals, etc, yet they never take their own loony gun arguments to such a degree. If people can own assault weapons with high capacity clips, should we worry that folks will eventually want to own air to surface missiles, grenade launchers, and tanks?•• It is impossible to extract sense or logic from this scenario. We are dealing with people who would rather see little children murdered in droves than give up their guns. Empirically, they are no better than the people who pull the triggers.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35770
|
| Posted: 25 April 2014 at 1:34pm | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
David Poole wrote:
| Matt, the number of background checks performed in 2012 doesn't tell you how many guns were already in Texas, or how many were sold by bypassing the system. It's a snapshot, and I would still be amazed if their actual per capita gun ownership isn't much, much higher than 31st in the nation. |
|
|
Then it's a straw man argument. There's no possible way to know what you "guarantee" you know. That said, I still think the irony is lost on you. You have something against people judging others based on geographical location as well as past history, yet you're doing exactly the same thing re: Texas.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35770
|
| Posted: 25 April 2014 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
At the end of the day and as it pertains to this discussion, I have a hard time with anyone being able to argue against this...Obfuscate with continued discussion about the North vs the South all you want, but bottom line weak legislation coupled with high gun ownership leads to more needless, unnecessary and senseless death.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35770
|
| Posted: 25 April 2014 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
sigh
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Marcel Chenier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2723
|
| Posted: 25 April 2014 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
This is NRA drafted policy and it's purely for profit.
No one "believes" anything except the buyers "believing" in what they already feel about guns: their right to unregulated use of them in whatever capacity they deem necessary. And these "believers" are a product of the NRA.
This isn't about anything other than profit for gun producers, the same organization which rates the politicians that are paid to pass such legislation; and by "paid" I mean that if those politicians don't get a positive NRA rating they don't get campaign funds from the constituents that care about such ratings.
Politicians are bought and sold just as guns are in the United States, unfortunately--and that's what this is all about.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Topic Closed)
