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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133571
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| Posted: 08 December 2012 at 8:25am | IP Logged | 1
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The saddest part of the effigy burning -- which I "hosted" only in the sense of providing the venue -- is that it was Mark Gruenwald's idea, but he was forced, literally, to leave before the actual event.Mark REALLY needed the catharsis, but after setting everything in motion, he was not there for the thing that would have done him the most good.
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Marc Siry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 December 2012
Posts: 4
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| Posted: 08 December 2012 at 9:06am | IP Logged | 2
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Just finished reading the book- the one thing that struck me was the repeated depiction of Steve Ditko as some sort of sociopathic Randroid, devoid of human feeling and reaction.
I recall him, in the Shooter era, coming up to visit Marvel and hanging around in Ralph Macchio's office with some regularity. While certainly not a ray of unfiltered sunshine, he was friendly and genial enough, and seemed to get along just fine with everyone there.
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Marc Siry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 December 2012
Posts: 4
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| Posted: 08 December 2012 at 9:07am | IP Logged | 3
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Mr. Byrne- forget the effigy burning, I was disappointed that your epic Halloween parties didn't get a chapter of their own!
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Tim O Neill
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10942
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| Posted: 08 December 2012 at 9:13am | IP Logged | 4
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Burning in effigy is tame and creative compared to the way I've seen people celebrate when a bad boss leaves. I was at a staff party where they wanted to shoot pictures of the boss out of a cannon. They would have done it, too, but they lacked a key element -- a cannon. And everyone was too drunk to find and/or operate one. They just resorted to darts in the end.
This kind of stuff is common when toxic, demoralizing bosses leave. That a bunch of creative people would celebrate in a creative way is not surprising to me. I've heard about this party in the past, and it has been described in a cathartic, bonding way. The dour description from the book makes it sound like witches summoning beasts.
Being the boss is good because you get paid more and you make the final decisions. But as every Spider-Fan knows, with great power comes great responsibility - and it sounds like Shooter did not evoke the best leadership. It looks like he had some great ideas, but he clearly did not rally the troops, which is critical in a creative environment. And since a boss gets the big money and the final say, they have to accept there will be criticism. It comes with the job.
I used to think that Shooter was probably judged harshly - any boss has a tough row to hoe in bringing disparate groups together. But recently, I read his account of how the "The Dark Phoenix Saga" unfolded, and I saw why he was a bad leader. He put himself at the center of the story and minimized JB's involvement to a voice on the phone whispering in Chris Claremont's ear, which is a staggeringly irresponsible point of view by any perspective. I imagine interacting with that kind of mindset on a regular basis must have been awful.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36087
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| Posted: 08 December 2012 at 9:16am | IP Logged | 5
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Shooter placing himself at the center of a story?!? SHOCKING!!!!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133571
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| Posted: 08 December 2012 at 9:28am | IP Logged | 6
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Mr. Byrne- forget the effigy burning, I was disappointed that your epic Halloween parties didn't get a chapter of their own!•• Indeed! How many times in a lifetime would one expect to see something like this: 
Left to right, Ralph Macchio, Bob Harras, Mike Carlin, Mike Higgins, Jack Morelli. (That was the "Fancy Dress" Halloween. Higgins made the observation that if someone threw a party and said "You have to bring me a $50 gift" you'd most likely tell 'em to get stuffed, but nobody thought twice about renting a tux for that much!) And, hi, Marc!
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Fred J Chamberlain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4044
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| Posted: 08 December 2012 at 9:34am | IP Logged | 7
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None of the actions done at a private gathering to vent about working
relationships and conditions appears inappropriate or unhealthy to me.
Cathartic, sure.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133571
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| Posted: 08 December 2012 at 9:38am | IP Logged | 8
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I'm reminded of an old joke.".... so we burned him in Effigy -- which is a small town just outside New York."
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Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
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| Posted: 08 December 2012 at 10:34am | IP Logged | 9
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Shooter placing himself at the center of a story?!? SHOCKING!!!! According to John Romita, Jr. that exactly what Star Brand was. I was upset to see JRjr. get pulled off the X-Men at the time. It's funny but even though I thought that the New Universe was cool at the time, I only bought the first few issues of Star Brand and DP7. I think the idea was cool at the time because here I was at the start of something new. The actual stories left me pretty cold even if the creators involved were favorites. It's a shame that they were pulled from Marvel books that I already enjoyed.
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David Plunkert
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2012
Posts: 536
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| Posted: 08 December 2012 at 11:02am | IP Logged | 10
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Roy Thomas astutely dismissed the New Universe as "TV movies". They were like Marvel comics, but without budgets.
iiii
That is a perfect description.
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Shaun Barry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6934
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| Posted: 08 December 2012 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | 11
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Bah. Even at 14 years old, me and my other comic book/middle school chums dismissed the New Universe almost from the start. We all thought they were colossally BORING. The only one I thought really looked good was NIGHTMASK, but I lost interest in that one after the third or fourth issue.
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Eric Smearman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 5839
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| Posted: 08 December 2012 at 2:57pm | IP Logged | 12
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I remember enjoying DP7. It introduced me to Paul Ryan's art, of
which I became a huge fan. Thought STAR BRAND was ok...loved
the art.
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