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Topic: "Marvel Comics, The Untold Story" (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Shawn Kane
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Posted: 25 October 2012 at 11:10am | IP Logged | 1  

I've been reading the book and I tend to read biographies a bit differently (WEIRDO ALERT). I started on the bakruptcy chapters since those were my waning days as a fan. It does get a bit depressing. At the same time when I go back and read the earlier chapters, I imagine that I'll enjoy those.
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Robert Bradley
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Posted: 25 October 2012 at 11:25am | IP Logged | 2  

Shawn - I have to admit I read a lot of non-fiction books that way too.

I was determined to read this book front to back without cheating, but did give in a couple of times to see if specific stories were covered.

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Leigh DJ Hunt
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Posted: 29 November 2012 at 4:15pm | IP Logged | 3  

some comments from another board about this book regarding jb:

2. On page 237, you say that Stern and Byrne left Captain America in protest of Shooter's implementation of a rule that stories could not continue over more than two issues, ruining a planned multi-part Red Skull story. It is true that Byrne says this, but Roger Stern tells a different story ( http://www.marvelmasterworks.com/features/int_stern_1006_2.h tml). He says that the problem was that editor Jim Salicrup scheduled a fill-in issue to get the book back on schedule, and in doing so ruined their chances to get a "continuity bonus" given for every six consecutive issues. I tend to give Stern's story more credence because it's the explanation that was reported in the fan press at the time. And for what it's worth, Shooter denies having implemented a "no multi-part stories" rule.

3. On page 402 you quote Marv Wolfman's story that John Byrne made faces at him during his testimony during the Blade lawsuit. Byrne denies having done this.

THE AUTHOR SEAN HOWE:

2. I don't remember right now my reasons for going with Byrne's version of this story, but I'll look into it.

3. In the book, I reported that Wolfman told this story, and I quoted him verbatim from a post-lawsuit interview with the Comics Journal. I did not know that Byrne ever disputed Wolfman's account; Byrne had politely but firmly declined to be interviewed. 

After the book came out, I saw this on Byrne's message board:
"I was disappointed -- and annoyed -- today to learn that this book repeats, apparently without fact checking, the myth of my having 'made faces' at Marv Wolfman when I was in the audience for his law suit against Marvel. A simple reading of the transcript debunks this story, but I guess we're into the "print the legend" school of 'journalism' here."

Anyway, I went back to the transcript, which shows 1) Wolfman going on the record about Byrne making faces, and 2) Wolfman's lawyer bringing it up again during closing arguments. 

MR. DILBERTO: I did want to highlight some of the deposition testimony you will hear from John Byrne. John Byrne is a current employee of Marvel. He is the gentleman seated back there with the beard who was making faces at Mr. Wolfman during the first day of trial. Mr. Byrne stated in his deposition -
MR. FLEISCHER: Your Honor, is it really necessary for this juvenile reference, which is not accurate?
MR. DILIBERTO: In fact, the faces he was making at Mr. Wolfman were juvenile, I agree with Mr. Fleischer's characterization of that.

Now that Byrne himself has finally weighed in, I'll try to find room to add his denial. But I think his dismissal of my journalistic methods is a little bit disingenuous, since he informed me that he found giving interviews to be "unnecessary."
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------
2. seems odd as JB is known for being up to date. how many times was he ever late?

3. jb's comments about the blade trial are surely fairly well known. i know them and i wasn't even part of fandom at the time of the trial.



Edited by Leigh DJ Hunt on 29 November 2012 at 4:19pm
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 29 November 2012 at 7:34pm | IP Logged | 4  

Regarding Captain America being behind schedule, Roger says (in the interview linked) that he'd fallen behind due to some health issues, so it wasn't JB's fault.  He also says that Jim Salicrup was worried that JB's upcoming marriage might cause him to fall behind schedule.
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David Miller
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Posted: 29 November 2012 at 8:39pm | IP Logged | 5  

Leigh: could you post a link that discussion?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 29 November 2012 at 9:31pm | IP Logged | 6  

Roger and I had begun what was intended to be a three part story involving our first use of the Red Skull. The pencils of the pages I'd completed were reproduced in the trade paperback that collected our issues. My recollection, as I have said before, is of Shooter declaring there should be no more multi-part stories, and that Rog and I must finish our story in the issue already started. This would have been impossible without tearing the guts out of our story, and probably scrapping most or all of the pages I had already drawn. I have no recollection of Jim Salicrup planning a fill-in.* Nor do I recall any monetary considerations. (And in those days before royalties, that would have been important.)

My memory is of Roger quitting on creative grounds. Jim Salicrup then offered the writing job to me, but I quit in support of Roger.

-------------

* With Roger and me already started on a three part story, I'm not even sure where such a fill-in could have been placed.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 29 November 2012 at 9:35pm | IP Logged | 7  

As to the matter of my "making faces", I again invite anyone who wants to to seek out the transcript -- not "selected highlights" -- and note there that the Judge's response to Wolfman's lawyer's demand that I be ejected from the court for such "faces" was "No."
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Cory Vandernet
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Posted: 29 November 2012 at 10:17pm | IP Logged | 8  

Regarding the Cap 'fill in' issue...

I seem to recall that Shooter had decided that instead of a 4 month lead-time for each issue it would be a 6 month lead-time, during that period. So it was up to the editor to fill the 2 month 'shortfall'.  So, one day Cap was on schedule and the next day Cap was 2 monthes behind schedule. I think that Sterno wrote a Frank Miller fill-in (that was published elsewhere a couple of years later) so he wouldn't lose his bonus, and then Salicrup ordered a Gene Colan fill-in, which set Sterno off.

Both J.B.'s and Roger's recollections are correct, Shooter had created a perfect storm of office-politics that destroyed what would have been a classic Cap story.

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David Plunkert
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Posted: 29 November 2012 at 11:42pm | IP Logged | 9  

Both J.B.'s and Roger's recollections are correct, Shooter had created a perfect storm of office-politics that destroyed what would have been a classic Cap story.

iii

Loved the JB /Stern Cap run. Although I did like that Colan fill in issue... that was the last Cap issue I bought for many a day. 

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Nathan Greno
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Posted: 30 November 2012 at 12:27am | IP Logged | 10  

Not sure if there's any truth to this, but the book also reports-

Saturday, April 4, John Byrne hosted a party at his house in Connecticut, attended by several Marvel staffers and freelancers. In the backyard, a suit was stuffed with unsold issues of New Universe titles, a picture of Shooter’s face was affixed on the head, and the editor in chief of Marvel Comics was burned in effigy. 
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Nathan Greno
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Posted: 30 November 2012 at 12:29am | IP Logged | 11  

Jason: 

Regarding Captain America being behind schedule, Roger says (in the interview linked) that he'd fallen behind due to some health issues, so it wasn't JB's fault.  He also says that Jim Salicrup was worried that JB's upcoming marriage might cause him to fall behind schedule.

---

Byrne never missed his deadlines. That's crazy. 
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 30 November 2012 at 12:32am | IP Logged | 12  

JB wrote: With Roger and me already started on a three part story, I'm not even sure where such a fill-in could have been placed.

The fill-in was to be in issue #256, bumping the first part of the Red Skull story to #257.  I believe the story that did wind up appearing in #256 (by Mantlo and Colan) was the fill-in story in question.

Here's Roger's comments for anyone who hasn't seen them:

************************************************************

GK: Can you explain why John and you left Cap after #255?

RS: That gets a little complicated. Marvel was starting to crack the whip on deadlines, and all the editors were under pressure to get their books on time. I’d had some stomach trouble midway through our run on Cap, and John was about to get married, and Jim Salicrup was understandably worried that we would fall further behind. I thought we could pull ahead in just a matter of weeks – my digestion was already back to normal, and I knew that John’s work ethic was as strong as mine – and to prove it, I sat down and plotted the next three issues straight through. Jim was still uneasy about the deadlines, and so he decided to schedule a fill-in by another writer. I pointed out that we already had a fill-in underway; Frank Miller was drawing a stand-alone Cap story that I was going to script. (It eventually saw print in Marvel Fanfare.)

In those days before royalties, Marvel had what was called a "continuity bonus." If you wrote or drew six consecutive issues, you got a bonus. And so on for the next six, and the next. A fill-in before issue #258 would set all of our bonuses back.

But beyond that, I was worried about losing sales momentum on the series. We’d been working hard to build up the readership, and I knew from my days as an editor that fill-ins usually cost you readers.

Back during those early days of the Direct Market, when the greatest percentage of sales still came from the newsstand, it was a given that sales would dip after each fill-in. It could take a book’s regular creative team as much as three issues to get the readership back up to the pre-fill-in level.

Well, I couldn’t persuade Jim not to schedule a fill-in. And, looking back, if I had been in his shoes, I might have done the same thing. But I wasn’t in his shoes. I was the freelancer, and I didn’t like the way we were being treated.

I’d worked with Jim a long time and I really didn’t want to come to loggerheads with him. So, I took back all three plots, tore up the vouchers, and stepped away from the book. I figured, better to leave Cap on an up note with the 40th anniversary issue.



Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 30 November 2012 at 12:35am
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