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Ben Mcvay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2006
Posts: 1414
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| Posted: 19 September 2012 at 9:15am | IP Logged | 1
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JB,
Do you think that Dave Cockrum's original idea for a LSH sister book called OUTSIDERS would have been successful since Nightcrawler and Storm were originally designed for that pitch had DC not passed (I have heard rumors that Colossus would have been on this as well as the brother of Ferro Lad, but haven't ever seen anything concrete on the subject)?
Edited by Ben Mcvay on 19 September 2012 at 9:16am
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Flavio Sapha
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Brazil
Posts: 12912
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| Posted: 19 September 2012 at 9:20am | IP Logged | 2
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Because that book, minus Dave, would also have been minus Storm, Nightcrawler, Colossus and Thunderbird, who were all his characters (with some tweaking from Len Wein).
+++
Zoiks!!! I am glad Dave Cockrum picked up the phone that fateful day he was offered the job, then!
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4623
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| Posted: 19 September 2012 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | 3
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Ben, I don't think the Outsiders was ever pitched as a sister title to the Legion... the group was intended to be supporting characters in the Legion feature. As were the Strangers, a group of villains that featured Cockrum's Wolverine character. By the way, Dave claimed that he showed his Wolverine sketch to Roy Thomas prior to Roy's suggesting the Wolverine name to Len Wein for a new character. Roy does not recall this, but if true it means there'd be no Wolverine either if not for Dave.
Also, according to Dave (in his interview in The Legion Companion) Colossus was not created to be the brother of Ferro Lad. And Storm was sort of a composite of several Outsiders characters (Trio, Typhoon, and Quetzal) so it's not entirely accurate to say she was designed to appear in the Outsiders. More details here.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 19 September 2012 at 12:21pm
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Ben Mcvay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2006
Posts: 1414
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| Posted: 19 September 2012 at 12:16pm | IP Logged | 4
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Thanks Jason. I have the Legion Companion, but it has been several years since I have even opened it.
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Steve Gumm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1471
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| Posted: 19 September 2012 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 5
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JB- Do you know any of the backstory as to why Len left the X-Men so early in the run? I've often wondered, but have never heard the reason for the change.
Edited by Steve Gumm on 19 September 2012 at 12:50pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
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| Posted: 19 September 2012 at 6:32pm | IP Logged | 6
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JB- Do you know any of the backstory as to why Len left the X-Men so early in the run? I've often wondered, but have never heard the reason for the change. •• As I understand it, he found himself over-committed, and decided to drop X-MEN since, even tho it was basically his baby, he'd not put as much time into it as other things. Better to leave before the investment became too great.
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Bill Guerra
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 March 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1072
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| Posted: 19 September 2012 at 7:09pm | IP Logged | 7
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"As I understand it, he found himself over-committed, and decided to drop X-MEN since, even tho it was basically his baby, he'd not put as much time into it as other things. Better to leave before the investment became too great." Oh man, somewhere in the multiverse there's a reality where Len Wein wrote the X-Men, not Chris Claremont! I can see that being one of those butterfly effect situations...
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Dana Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 187
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| Posted: 20 September 2012 at 1:17am | IP Logged | 8
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So Hercules being one of the greatest heroes of mythology doesn't give him the right to be called a "champion"? The Black Widow being one of the most deadly and accomplished spies in the Marvel universe isn't enough to qualify her as a "champion"? What is wrong with you people?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 20 September 2012 at 5:36am | IP Logged | 9
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So Hercules being one of the greatest heroes of mythology doesn't give him the right to be called a "champion"? The Black Widow being one of the most deadly and accomplished spies in the Marvel universe isn't enough to qualify her as a "champion"? What is wrong with you people?•• English a second language? We're talking about the character's ranking in Marvel Comics.
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Darren Ashmore
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 960
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| Posted: 20 September 2012 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | 10
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Curiously, 4 out of the five original Champs have since appeared in Marvel movies.
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Joe Alexander
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 572
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| Posted: 21 September 2012 at 8:56am | IP Logged | 11
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JB-
First, and perhaps most important, altho the X-MEN book had gone into cancellation oblivion (and then reprint limbo), the characters and concepts were still fan favorites -- AND, Cyclops was still the COOL one. Still Mr. X-Man. So there were a lot of fans hungry for an X-MEN book. Not as many as read SPIDER-MAN or FANTASTIC FOUR, to be sure, but enough for Marvel to keep wondering if it was worth another try.
So, when the All New, All Different X-MEN came along, there was already an audience primed and ready. That there was only ONE of the original team in the roster (two, if you count Xavier, which very few did!), was not a major drawback. The new characters were fun and interesting (and beautifully drawn). Well, except that Wolverine guy. Reaction to him was mostly negative, at first. Fans seemed, oddly, equate him to the Beast (shape of his mask?) and if they had a "choice", they'd rather have Hank back.
----------------------------------------------------
This type of insight and recollection is one of my favorite things about the JB forum. As I read it, my own recollections were awakened. Especially love that there are still folks who remember that Cyclops was a very cool character.
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Topic Closed)
