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Topic: JB: X-Men cast Q (Champions thread drift) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 17 September 2012 at 10:21pm | IP Logged | 1  

 Brian Hague wrote:
Originally, the idea behind the Champions was that Bobby and Warren were going to be driving around Southern California ala' Route 66 and find super-heroic adventures wherever they went. Unfortunately, that was something of an untried premise and the powers that be insisted upon a more conventional "super-team" set-up.


Indeed.  Tony Isabella says he originally pitched the idea of an Iceman/Angel buddy book, but editor Len Wein told him that a superhero team needed "a strong guy, a girl, and at least one character who stars in his own book."  Hence the three additions to the cast.  The name of the group carries on the Marvel tradition of naming superhero teams after 60's television shows. 

The Defenders at least had a unifying concept, even if it was an unlikely one... a group comprised of heroes who wouldn't want to join a group.  And it had one A-list character.  The Champions were all C-listers, and I always found Marvel's Hercules character to be extremely unappealing.  The Defenders also had better writers.
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James Revilla
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Posted: 18 September 2012 at 3:28am | IP Logged | 2  

Island of Misfit Avengers.
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 18 September 2012 at 5:30pm | IP Logged | 3  

James, I'd agree with that, except that the Champions has no one amongst its ranks who is as cool as King Moonracer. Or as personable as the Charlie-In-the-Box. Or as emotionally effective as the little doll.

Natasha comes the closest, but the Champions was not her finest hour.

 

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David Plunkert
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Posted: 18 September 2012 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | 4  

Brian Hague said: Years later, I will say I kinda like the song, and issue 17 of that book, inked by JB over George Tuska's pencils is trippy as all get-out.

iii

I really liked the look of the art on that particular issue. The power of Tuska's figures could get lost depending on who was inking him. No so here. I recall the Ghost Rider looking especially cool.
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 18 September 2012 at 6:57pm | IP Logged | 5  

I wonder if it would have made a difference if they'd assigned Dave Cockrum to Champions and George Tuska to X-Men instead?
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Brian Hague
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Posted: 18 September 2012 at 7:26pm | IP Logged | 6  

Had such a thing happened, Jason, the Champions would have been the team with a version of Nightcrawler, Storm, and Colossus on it. That would have changed the character dynamics of both teams significantly.

 

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Mike Norris
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Posted: 18 September 2012 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | 7  

I was pretty much a sucker for team/group books back then, so I gave the Champions a shot. Lasted for about three or four issues and then I dropped it. Didn't really click probably for the reasons others mentioned. Plus, how in the heck could they dump the Adams Angel costume for that yellow and red travesty with a headband!!!!

Thinking back, FF and the Legion were the only team/groups I didn't follow in those days. 
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Robert Bradley
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Posted: 18 September 2012 at 8:43pm | IP Logged | 8  

"Weeeee are the Champions, my friends! And we'll keep on fighting 'til the end! We are the Champions! We are the Champions! No time for losers! 'Cause we are the Champions... Of the world!"

I did not like that song as a kid. The lousy punks at school would screech that anthem when they were pushing you around, and asking "Champions of what?" got you absolutely nowhere. (And when I say "you" I mean me.)

I had no interest in a book that read to me as if it were capitalizing on that song.

*  *  *  *

The comic (1975) predates the song (1977).



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Brian Hague
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Posted: 18 September 2012 at 8:47pm | IP Logged | 9  

"I had no interest in a book that READ TO ME as if it were..."

So sorry my younger self didn't cruise Wikipedia to check on those dates, Robert.

 

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Robert Bradley
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Posted: 18 September 2012 at 9:36pm | IP Logged | 10  

I knew The Champions comic was from 1975, and I suspected the song was later (I was guessing even later though).

And I was working under the assumption that you read it when it came out like I did Brian.  Which is assuming a lot I suppose.

All told I loved the Champions, mainly because it had Hercules and the Iceman.  I will but just about any series that Hercules is in, even now.



Edited by Robert Bradley on 18 September 2012 at 9:41pm
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Mike Purdy
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Posted: 19 September 2012 at 7:32am | IP Logged | 11  

My wishful thinking Champions lineup: Black Widow, Hercules, Havok, Polaris, Falcon and the Son of Satan.  Giant-Man and Darkstar would be later additions to the roster.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 19 September 2012 at 7:46am | IP Logged | 12  

I wonder if it would have made a difference if they'd assigned Dave Cockrum to Champions and George Tuska to X-Men instead?

••

A few things to keep in mind, here.

First, and perhaps most important, altho the X-MEN book had gone into cancellation oblivion (and then reprint limbo), the characters and concepts were still fan favorites -- AND, Cyclops was still the COOL one. Still Mr. X-Man. So there were a lot of fans hungry for an X-MEN book. Not as many as read SPIDER-MAN or FANTASTIC FOUR, to be sure, but enough for Marvel to keep wondering if it was worth another try.

So, when the All New, All Different X-MEN came along, there was already an audience primed and ready. That there was only ONE of the original team in the roster (two, if you count Xavier, which very few did!), was not a major drawback. The new characters were fun and interesting (and beautifully drawn). Well, except that Wolverine guy. Reaction to him was mostly negative, at first. Fans seemed, oddly, equate him to the Beast (shape of his mask?) and if they had a "choice", they'd rather have Hank back.

Importantly, tho, there was Cyclops, who was COOL, and a bunch of characters who were not also-rans. Which could NOT be said of the CHAMPIONS. Iceman was not high on the hit parade, for X-Fans, and altho Angel was cool, he did not have the weight of Cyclops. Hercules and the Black Widow were third and fourth stringers, at best. In fact, the only "star" the book had to offer was Ghost Rider, and Ghost Rider was a mystery to most folk at Marvel. They simply could not understand why his book sold. The writing and art were rarely top notch, but the title was known as "the book they cannot kill". It just kept on keeping on. But was there enough "crossover" appeal for Ghost Rider to draw fans to THE CHAMPIONS?

It seemed not.

So, no, I don't think Dave on the book would have made a difference -- except in the negative impact it would have had on X-MEN. Because that book, minus Dave, would also have been minus Storm, Nightcrawler, Colossus and Thunderbird, who were all his characters (with some tweaking from Len Wein).

The particular lightning that got bottled there was unique, and could not have been carried to another book.

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