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Thanos Kollias Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2004 Location: Greece Posts: 5009
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Posted: 20 December 2011 at 1:49am | IP Logged | 1
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I'd like to see her try that with a Disney (Uncle Scrooge etc) book. Wonder how far she'd get passing that creation off as her own?•• Technically, she IS doing it with Disney books. I wonder if they'll notice? +++ Lichtenstein did it with Disney characters. Did anything happen then?
Edited by Thanos Kollias on 20 December 2011 at 1:50am
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Martinho Correia Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 June 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 203
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Posted: 20 December 2011 at 6:26am | IP Logged | 2
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Knut:It is only a trompe l'oeil if it can be mistaken for the real thing, as if that is the real thing hanging there on the wall.
Not always. Tromp l'oeil is simply a painting style where objects are depicted with extreme realism. They do not have to be hanging on the wall.
A recent show on tromp l'oeil at the National Gallery included this painting, very similar in execution to Moody's:
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Robert LaGuardia Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 November 2007 Location: United States Posts: 1296
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Posted: 20 December 2011 at 7:13am | IP Logged | 3
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There's a picture of a silhouetted decapitated Mickey Mouse in MOMA. There isn't some conspiracy to take advantage of comic books. This topic pops up a lot but I never see a topic about how comics "steal" from fine art. All those Pieta homages? I've seen Dali homages, Norman Rockwell homages, album cover homages, Van Gogh, Schiele, and yet where is the credit to the original artist?
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Craig Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 November 2010 Location: United States Posts: 1756
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Posted: 20 December 2011 at 7:33am | IP Logged | 4
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^ The work in question in this topic does not really seem like an homage to comics though, does it. Any cultural references or easter eggs I've ever seen in comics are typically subtle. I've even heard tell of an artist who liked to hide a certain famous cartoon animal in background scenery. When the center piece of the art is entirely someone else's work, uncredited... just smacks of plagiarism. Why could this artist not have painted her own original imagery of comic characters, rather than reproductions of someone else's work? Does her intended statement have any less meaning that way? Is there some nuance left from her argument by using original work? Follow-up: how hard would it have been for her to credit these artists in her work and/or seek permission for the images?
Edited by Craig Robinson on 20 December 2011 at 7:37am
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Knut Robert Knutsen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006 Posts: 7374
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Posted: 20 December 2011 at 7:41am | IP Logged | 5
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"Not always. Tromp l'oeil is simply a painting style where objects are depicted with extreme realism. They do not have to be hanging on the wall." If it's hanging on the wall, its perspective and the physical reality of the object should be consistent with that. It has to look real from the intended vantage point. Yes, a Tromp l'oeil doesn't have to hang on a wall, it can be in the ceiling or on the floor. But if you're painting a picture of an object as if it's lying on a table and then hang the picture on a wall, it no longer provides the essential illusion, does it. They're hanging the paintings of the comics on the wall. Because of that, in order for it to be a proper tromp l'oeil, it would have to look consistent with a comic pinned to the wall. It does not. As it is, in order for it to be a proper Tromp l'oeil, it would have to be displayed flat and viewed from a height and position that would allow the perspective to line up. The purpose of the style is the illusion of reality in that precise position. Not simply to draw something very realistic.
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Scott Edelman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 December 2011 Location: United States Posts: 2
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Posted: 20 December 2011 at 7:49am | IP Logged | 6
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Thanks for the signal boost, all! I did a follow-up post here:
http://www.scottedelman.com/2011/12/19/a-few-further-thought s-on-the-artwork-of-sharon-moody/
And I just learned about Brian Bolland's blistering response when this happened to him:
http://www.scottedelman.com/2011/12/20/brian-bollands-brilli antly-blistering-rebuttal/
I intend to visit that gallery next week to see Moody's art in person and will report back!
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Paulo Pereira Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006 Posts: 15539
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Posted: 20 December 2011 at 8:06am | IP Logged | 7
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Welcome to the board, Scott!
Thought I'd create links for your articles:
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Scott Edelman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 December 2011 Location: United States Posts: 2
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Posted: 20 December 2011 at 8:08am | IP Logged | 8
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Thanks for that! John and I go back a loooooooog way, to before either of us worked in comics.
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Tim Cousar Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1668
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Posted: 20 December 2011 at 8:30am | IP Logged | 9
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Scott, when you visit the gallery, maybe you should carry some index cards with the credits for the comics on them and pin them to the wall next to the paintings.
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Carmen Bernardo Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006 Location: United States Posts: 3666
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Posted: 20 December 2011 at 8:57am | IP Logged | 10
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@ Stephen Myers: Reading about that textbook experience of yours reminds me of something that I concluded with the current "Establishment" a while back. It seems that, while they were on the outside looking in, a lot of the avant-garde artists who were always denigrating the Classics as bourgeois humdrum thought this way. Now that they are the Establishment, they still think the same way. It reminds me of the saying that pertains to wishing for something and getting it, only to find out that it's not such a good thing...
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Robert LaGuardia Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 November 2007 Location: United States Posts: 1296
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Posted: 20 December 2011 at 9:42am | IP Logged | 11
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Craig the same can be said for comic artists who swipe from fine artists. Like I said how many comic artists have given credit when they homage an album cover or movie poster, or a Michelangelo or any other of the artists I mentioned? People who go to galleries aren't going see Moody's paintings and think she made a comic book, they will see a painting OF a comic, as Dave said, just like any other still life.
I have equal love for both fields but this attitude that fine arts is some sort of boogeyman preying on poor little comic books is ridiculous.
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Knut Robert Knutsen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006 Posts: 7374
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Posted: 20 December 2011 at 10:32am | IP Logged | 12
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"Like I said how many comic artists have given credit when they homage an album cover or movie poster, or a Michelangelo or any other of the artists I mentioned?" You mean referenced classical, easily recognizable compositions in the public domain in their artwork? How does that relate to selling exact copies in oil of comics which are still in copyright and which feature active trademarks to a mostly comics-ignorant audience who would not recognize the source material and who may not realize that the image in the painting does not originate with the painter? Painting a pitch perfect copy of the Mona Lisa may be creatively bankrupt, but unless you tried passing it off as the original, you wouldn't be breaking any laws. Certainly not copyright and trademark laws. Yes, under "fair use", copyrighted and trademarked works may be referenced in other works of art. But when the copyrighted and trademarked work is, for all intents and purposes, the only thing on the canvas, we're into the realm of Piracy. Piracy for profit.
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