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Raj Dhami Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 March 2008 Posts: 232
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Posted: 26 November 2011 at 9:41am | IP Logged | 1
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Love, love, love this piece! I have my opinion about a few things - i like Wolverine with or without mask modification...with i would prefer because lets face it he's a team player but he still wants / needs to be an individual. Masks are there for a reason to protect the identity of the person wearing it....to this end, does Nightcrawler really need a mask? Its not like with the mask his identity is anymore protected than if he was not wearing one. I can see Masks on all of the others but less so for Nightcrawler imho. On the other hand, from a team perspective, by removing his mask do you single him as the odd one out...if thats possible in a team of mutants? and therefore demotivate him from the get-go...
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133563
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Posted: 26 November 2011 at 11:47am | IP Logged | 2
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Having Nightcrawler wear a mask might also make it easier for civilians to deal with him. Altho he started out as SCARY, in GIANT-SIZED X-MEN 1, it did not take long for him to, ah, mutate into a happy-go-lucky character, much as the Thing did in FANTASTIC FOUR. This is a classic example of "standing too close". Writers, artists, fans, tend to forget that no matter how familiar we become with these characters, to someone living in that world coming face to face with Ben or Kurt would still be a shocker. So, by wearing a mask, Nightcrawler would be sending a subliminal message to people he met -- people he would most likely be trying to help! -- in effect saying "it's okay, I'm not really a demon!" Or an "elf". shudder. . .
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Brennan Voboril Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 January 2011 Posts: 1747
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Posted: 26 November 2011 at 2:39pm | IP Logged | 3
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JB's reasons for the mask makes a lot of sense. I liked the very first appearance of Nightcrawler. The whole elf thing and the making him cute I didn't care for as much (although Cockrum's art on those books is really nice).
X-Men #3's cover is amazing isn't it?
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Darran Hight Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 November 2011 Location: United States Posts: 14
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Posted: 27 November 2011 at 2:52pm | IP Logged | 4
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I really liked the dark apperance of Kurt contrasted with his good nature that had been developed over time.
I would really love to see a Hidden Years for the "All New" X-Men too. There has to be some great stories untold for the new team. Such as why they didn't all get the old school uniforms.
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Richard Stevens Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1956
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Posted: 27 November 2011 at 8:53pm | IP Logged | 5
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The arrow on that X-Men cover is so efficient and beautiful as a lettering effect.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133563
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 6:27am | IP Logged | 6
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I would really love to see a Hidden Years for the "All New" X-Men too. There has to be some great stories untold for the new team. Such as why they didn't all get the old school uniforms.•• Jim Shooter once said of "untold tales", "If they're so great, why weren't they told before?" This rather misses the point, but it does underscore the "danger" of "untold tales". Sometimes they can degenerate into pure fan-wank, filling "gaps" that don't really exist (as when Marvel decided there were "missing" issues between AMAZING FANTASY 15 and AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 1) or unnecessarily clutter a character's backstory (as when DC decided it had actually taken Kal-El 100 years to reach Earth). But sometimes -- rarely -- there really is a "gap" in the history, as with the X-Men. The team's appearances in other parts of the Marvel Universe, while their own book was in reprint limbo, told readers that there were other adventures going on. HIDDEN YEARS showed us some of those adventures. The All New, All Different X-Men don't have any "gaps" like that -- not unless we resort to shoe-horning in tales between issues, and/or between panels.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133563
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 6:31am | IP Logged | 7
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The arrow on that X-Men cover is so efficient and beautiful as a lettering effect.•• One of the things I love about that cover is the unabashed hyperbole. That lower right blurb, declaring the X-Men to have "taken America by storm!" Back in those days, it took as much as a year to gather all the sales figures (which is why it so often took eleven issues for a book to get canceled), so as of the third issue, five months into the run, Marvel wouldn't really have any sort of fix yet on how the book was selling.
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Vinny Valenti Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8156
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 6:36am | IP Logged | 8
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Besides, that role was already filled by CLASSIC X-MEN, with new backup tales told in the past, and yes, even new panels shoehorned into existing pages (even as a kid that bugged me to no end - especially in the issues that reprinted the second battle with Magneto from UXM#112-113 - Claremont inserted panels of Magneto beginning to doubt his evil intentions, which was directly at odds with the other panels. Not to mention that some of the original panels had thought balloons added and changed to attempt to give an impression that Magneto was intended to turn good all along).
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133563
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 11:25am | IP Logged | 9
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Besides, that role was already filled by CLASSIC X-MEN, with new backup tales told in the past, and yes, even new panels shoehorned into existing pages (even as a kid that bugged me to no end - especially in the issues that reprinted the second battle with Magneto from UXM#112-113 - Claremont inserted panels of Magneto beginning to doubt his evil intentions, which was directly at odds with the other panels. Not to mention that some of the original panels had thought balloons added and changed to attempt to give an impression that Magneto was intended to turn good all along).•• Which hardcore X-fans embraced without hesitation -- while at the same time (well, a few years later, actually) blasting me for having the original X-Men meet Ororo because "that has never been mentioned, so it didn't happen!" Typically, retcons are allowed only when they are allowed! Of all Chris' sins as Chief Shaper of the X-Men, the way he mucked about with Magneto will, to me, always stand as the worst. It so clearly and distinctly contradicted Stan and Jack's version of the character.
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Valmor J. Pedretti Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 October 2011 Location: Brazil Posts: 786
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 1:21pm | IP Logged | 10
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Should we call that Vader Syndrome, maybe?
- Deep, deep inside, he's not that evil -
Since I stopped reading new Marvel comics in 2006, have they done this to Dr. Doom already? Has he joined the Avengers maybe?
(sigh)
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Vinny Valenti Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8156
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | 11
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The retro-edits in CLASSIC X-MEN definitely seemed Lucas-esque so your analogy is a good one, Valmor.
To me, it felt like somebody planting evidence at a crime scene after the crime has occurred in order to alter the outcome of a trial.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133563
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | 12
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Chris has never had much in the way of respect for continuity -- not even his own! Recall Betsy and Amanda being "revealed" as witches. Part of the problem -- if it is a problem, since X-Fans seemed to love it -- lies in his not have read the early issues until late in his "formative years" as X-Scribe. Close to when I left the book, in fact. This was why Roger Stern (as editor) and I (as co-conspirator) would be constantly having to tell him he could not do thus-and-such a thing he wanted to. Which usually meant he'd find a way to do it in a book over which neither Rog nor I had any control. His complete revision of Jean Gray's backstory, for instance -- which, of course, became canon, as reflected in the X-Movies. Speaking of the movies, people keep telling me FIRST CLASS is really good and really the best X-Men movie yet -- but there's no way I could ever watch it. Just from the trailers I can tell there's WAY to much Christory in it!
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