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Eric Smearman
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Posted: 24 October 2011 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 1  

I've read some writers (Busiek, the late Dwayne McDuffie, IIRC) say
that Superman allows himself to be hit in order to get some measure
of an opponent's power levels.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 24 October 2011 at 12:00pm | IP Logged | 2  

That's stupid.
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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Posted: 24 October 2011 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | 3  

"Superman allows himself to be hit in order to get some measure
of an opponent's power levels. "

That certainly contradicts the Superman I grew up on. He might allow himself to get hit by common thugs if he needs to get the point across that he's invulnerable, but hitting him is like punching solid steel. A hard punch would crush the bones in his opponent's hand if he was just a regular guy.

The Superman I knew would go out of his way to stop people from getting hurt, even criminals. He pulled his punches, he kept track of every bullet bouncing off his chest and he would quickly roll with a punch sometimes to prevent the other guy from getting hurt (especially as Clark Kent).

And letting himself get hit to gauge someone's strength? If the other guy was strong enough to punch him through a building, that would be putting bystanders at risk.

If he was sure that the other guys couldn't knock him off his feet, he might let them hit him so they'd wear themselves out (rope-a-dope-style), but intentionally taking a hit for other reasons? No. Doesn't make sense.

It's often been portrayed as a failing in Superman's enemies (and especially in Luthor) that they view him as all muscle and as somebody who rushes in, expecting his powers and invulnerability to save him). That was a recurring motif from the '50s to now. And the really good writers (no matter how corny the stories may seem to modern readers) made a point of it that a lot of the time Superman defeated his enemies not by being stronger than them, but by being smarter.

I'm not saying that he had a higher IQ than Luthor, Brainiac et al. or even a comparable level of super-intelligence, but he managed to identify their weaknesses and outwit them. Often precisely because they underestimated him.

And a Superman whose idea of testing his opponent is to let him have the first punch, seems both more macho and more of a musclehead than I'm used to. It seems more like Luthor's view of him has been embraced by the writers.

Maybe that's a bit harsh, maybe it's part of a larger idea of Superman where it makes sense that he would just let people punch him without having an idea about how strong they are. But my gut reaction is "nope". It just doesn't feel right.

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Kip Lewis
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Posted: 24 October 2011 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 4  

Might be stupid, but how often do you see Superman dodging punches
or a thrown hammer? (It is more likely he lets himself get hit, like by
the hammer, so nothing else gets hits because he dodged it.) But as
an old sentiment goes, Superman is so powerful, including so fast, that
he could beat 99% of his enemies in one panel, but that makes for a
boring comic. So, we ignore that and he gets hit, often.
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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Posted: 24 October 2011 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 5  

"(It is more likely he lets himself get hit, like by the hammer, so nothing else gets hits because he dodged it.)"

That, I agree with. He might let himself get hit to protect somebody else. It's just the idea of letting himself get hit to get the measure of somebody else's strength that doesn't seem right.

If somebody lands a punch on Superman that sends him flying, it's because  this other guy was too fast, sucker-punched him or was much stronger than expected.

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Kip Lewis
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Posted: 24 October 2011 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | 6  

, I asked him and his response was that he used the interpretation that
would give us a real fight, instead of Thor killing him in the first panel."

----

Someone please answer me this - my knowledge of Avengers history
is very spotty - hasn't Thor hurled his hammer at The Hulk several
times over the years? Hulk has no invulnerability to magic, either....so
if that's happened (and I would assume it has at this point), if a
hammer strike can kill Superman, can't it kill the Hulk as well?
--------------

Because, using JB's premise, Thor hitting Superman with the hammer
is like Arnold hitting Lou F. with a sledgehammer. Every blow would
shatter Lou's bone and a blow in the right spot, like caving in the chest
or busting the skull, could kill.

But as we have seen over the years, Hulk and Thor fighting is not like
2 strong men fighting and one has a sledgehammer because, no
matter how hard Thor hits the Hulk, I don't recall him ever breaking
bones.
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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 24 October 2011 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | 7  

Right - but if the Hulk can withstand Thor's hammer, shouldn't Superman be able to as well?
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Kip Lewis
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Posted: 24 October 2011 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | 8  

Maybe look at it this way; Hulk's invulnerability does protect him from
some magic damage.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 24 October 2011 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | 9  

Was that with the roll of  12 or 16 sided dice?

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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 24 October 2011 at 3:06pm | IP Logged | 10  

Alas, that is the kind of myopic thinking that was beginning to show itself more and more in comics -- and of which JLA/AVENGERS is the worst example.

(Hm. Hold on that. KINGDOM COME might be the worst. I seem to recall page after page after page in which no one is called by name.)

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It wouldn't surprise me at all if sometime in the future that some genius working for either of the Big 2 is going to come up with a new promotional slogan that says "Comics written and drawn by fans for long time fans".
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Trevor Smith
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Posted: 24 October 2011 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | 11  

"Was that with the roll of 12 or 16 sided dice?"

**

Puh-LEEZ Matt, everyone knows there's no such thing as a 16
sided die, geeeez!
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 24 October 2011 at 4:21pm | IP Logged | 12  

You've not been to a gaming store in a while, have you?
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