Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 14 Next >>
Topic: Q for JB - JLA Avengers (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Jason Uresti
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 February 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 72
Posted: 25 October 2011 at 9:48pm | IP Logged | 1  

"I don't know what fan written means but everytime different companies meet it can be a problem or "fan-like" such as the movie Ernst Krüger versus Jason Vorhees. "

I thought they handled that monster meeting pretty well. They kept it simple, used only the broad and most known elements of each character, and let it play out. Freddy and Jason both had their moments to shine, and in their own ways.

Had this been done in a JLA/Avengers way, you would have seen an incredibly elaborate plot, referencing little known or obscure points from the near twenty films these guys had between them. Constant winks and nods and dialog that only hardcore fans would know or appreciate, and other horror tropes or characters being thrown in that had little to do with Jason or Freddy. All of that would have been put on the screen, just so two undead monsters could beat each other up.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
Posted: 25 October 2011 at 11:32pm | IP Logged | 2  

That explaination really high lights how fans and pros overthink things and wind up with bizarre convoluted answers to problems that don't exist.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar
L’Homme Diabolique

Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7593
Posted: 26 October 2011 at 12:17am | IP Logged | 3  

This Superman/Thor/magic discussion is such a flashback -- this was one of the earliest discussions I was involved with back in the old AOL message board days.

I've always thought the question hinges on whether or not Mjölnir hits with magical force.  Certainly it's a magical item, but that doesn't automatically mean its impact is magical in nature.  Wonder Woman is also magical of nature, but that doesn't mean her punches are anything more than super strong punches; if they were, she'd be able to easily beat the tar out of Superman.  Ditto for Captain Marvel.

I'm not saying Mjölnir doesn't hit with magical force; I really don't know enough about Marvel's Thor to say.  If it doesn't, then I have no problem with Superman stopping Thor's blow.  If it does, it should have shattered his arm.
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Thanos Kollias
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 June 2004
Location: Greece
Posts: 5009
Posted: 26 October 2011 at 6:47am | IP Logged | 4  


I kinda think that Supeman is vulnerable to specific magic spells. If Dr. Strange makes a spell that Rick Jones's punches can knock Superman over the horizon, RJ will hit Superman and knock him over the horizon. if Dr. Strange conjures up a brick wall with a spell, Superman should turn that wall to dust. The spell isn't about the magical nature of the wall, but about creating a wall out of thin air.
Same thing with Thor's hammer. Thor's hammer has specific magical attributes. As far as I recall, Mjolnir holds the Thor/Donald Blake change curse, the part that reads (paraphrasing) whosoever holds the hammer, should he be worthy, will have the power of Thor and also commands storms and lightning.
It is a magical weapon, but I don't think its blows are magical. It's a tough weapon because of the Uru material it's made off and because its blows can be enriched by lightning and stuff. Nothing that bothers Superman, imo.
If Superman should be pulverized once hit by Mjolnir, so should every one else without magic powers like the Hulk, Wonder-Man, Hercules, the Thing, Silver Surfer, Cap's shield etc. We have seen that it's not how it works, though...
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Marc M. Woolman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 April 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 2096
Posted: 26 October 2011 at 8:00am | IP Logged | 5  

I've offered this before but it seems the question still needs to be answered: Yes Mjolnir does indeed hit with it's own magical force of impact. There are several Thor comics from the 70's and 80's and 90's which reveal this. Not only does Mjolnir hit with its own magical force, the evidence suggests it hits harder than Thor himself does, i.e. it hurts more to get by Mjolnir than by Thor.

There is a late 70's/early 80's tale where Loki is wearing the gloves that allow anyone to pick up Mjolnir, and he easily batters Thor unconscious with the hammer. (All I remember about the creative team of this issue is that John Buscema pencilled it)

There's a late 80's early 90's tale from the Tom Defalco/Ron Frenz run where Captain America is dog-piled by about 30 Asgardian Trolls, and his only hope of survival is Thor's hammer which is lying on the ground within his reach. Cap grasps Mjolnir, and with one swing of his arm every troll is immediately sent flying off of him with stunned look of pain on their faces. Cap hands Mjolnir back to Thor and comments upon what a fine and powerful weapon it truly is.

There was an Avengers story around the time of the end of Roger Stern's run and the beginning of Walt simonson's so I can't remember who wrote it, but in this story the Avengers are doing some combat training like the X-men in their danger-room and the Wasp's sting accidentally strikes Thor's hand that he's holding Mjolnir in which knocks it from Thor's grasp directly towards the She-Hulk. To save herself She-hulk grabs Captain America's shield and when the hammer hits the shield it still knocks she-hulk on her ass. And this was simply from the hammer accidentally being knocked from Thor's hand, not from Thor actually throwing it with any of his strength behind it.

There was also an early 80's Hulk comic from Bill Mantlo's run with Sal Buscema during the time they had Bruce Banner controlling the Hulk, and in this story (with the Avengers guest-appearing) the Hulk is fighting Thor and they've exchanged several blows already and then Thor lands a blow with Mjolnir and as the Hulk is sent flying through the air he thinks to himself how every time he's struck by Mjolnir it always hurts. (he was able to stand toe-to-toe against Thor trading blows but once Mjolnir is brought into it he's sent flying and definitely feeling the pain.)

Although this next theory is just that, only a theory, a case could be made that one of Mjolnir's enchantments could simply be that it will always strike a powerfully painful/devastating blow regardless of whom it is striking.

Many's the time Thor has thrown his hammer at some supremely powerful cosmic being like Galactus and these being always prevent the hammer from actually striking them, usually with some sort of forcefield. It could be argued they do this because they are arrogant don't deem to let a puny creature that is beneath them to affront their personage, or because if the hammer actually strikes them it will cause them devastating pain.

During Roger Stern's Avengers vs Olympus story-line Thor lands a blow with Mjolnir upon an enraged Zeus and Zeus really loses it, the implication being this blow really hurt him (Zeus).

Regardless of the theory, Marvel's Thor has a long-established history of showing that Thor's hammer does hit with it's own magical force of impact.



Edited by Marc M. Woolman on 26 October 2011 at 8:09am
Back to Top profile | search
 
Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
Posted: 26 October 2011 at 8:09am | IP Logged | 6  

I love George Perez's art, I love Kurt Busiek's writing, I love the Avengers, I love the Justice League of America. I didn't love this story. I've tried to read it a few times and it just doesn't do it for me.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Larry Hart
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 September 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 112
Posted: 26 October 2011 at 9:11am | IP Logged | 7  

"That was my biggest gripe about the Silver Age Martian Manhunter.  His "vulnerability" to fire was so extreme he would literally faint if someone lit a cigarette across the street from where he was walking.  That's just silly.  He should be vulnerable to fire like anyone else, that's it."
* * *

When I had a newborn baby at home, I used to joke with my wife that a plastic bag anywhere in the same room with the baby could be fatal.  "They're like kryptonite to her."

I was purposely misunderstanding the relationship between plastic bags and babies when I made those comments.  Unfortunately, many comics writers seem to treat their characters' weaknesses exactly that way.

Thus, fire is Martian Manhunter's kryptonite.  The color yellow is Green Lantern's kryptonite.  Someone brandishing a gun is Batman's kryptonite.  Laughter is Spock's kryptonite.  Etc.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
Posted: 26 October 2011 at 9:19am | IP Logged | 8  

 Marc M. wrote:
Not only does Mjolnir hit with its own magical force, the evidence suggests it hits harder than Thor himself does, i.e. it hurts more to get by Mjolnir than by Thor.

That's true of any object wielded by anyone strong enough to wield it. You can hit a ball farther by hitting it with a bat than by punching it, for example.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133563
Posted: 26 October 2011 at 9:52am | IP Logged | 9  

Mjolnir definitely has its own internal magic. If Thor picked up a big sledge hammer and swung it like Mjolnir, he would not get anything like the impact. In fact, the hammer would probably shatter!
Back to Top profile | search
 
Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6510
Posted: 26 October 2011 at 10:40am | IP Logged | 10  

JB: ...In fact, the hammer would probably shatter!

**
What a cool image.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Thanos Kollias
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 June 2004
Location: Greece
Posts: 5009
Posted: 26 October 2011 at 11:26am | IP Logged | 11  

Mjolnir definitely has its own internal magic. If Thor picked up a big sledge hammer and swung it like Mjolnir, he would not get anything like the impact. In fact, the hammer would probably shatter!
+++
Probably, but Mjolnir is made of Uru, which doesn't let it be shattered in the first place.

As for Cap picking it up and hurling the trolls or whatever, he was worthy and got the power of Thor.
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
Posted: 26 October 2011 at 11:31am | IP Logged | 12  

Thanos, the non-uru, nonmagical hammer would shatter — though I think that would depend on the object being struck, i.e. the softer or brittler object would shatter first.
Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 14 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login