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Emery Calame
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5773
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| Posted: 17 May 2011 at 7:29pm | IP Logged | 1
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No Bill, it turns out that Wendy was only put into a coma by Wonder Dog. Wonder Dog was a monster granted to a son of Ares who was making a move on Wonder Girl because she is a daughter of Zeus who was getting some of her powers from Ares while the Greek Gods hid from the building Final Crisis. When Wendy woke up she was paraplegic. Now apparently she's Oracle Jr.
Being smart, paraplegic, and having a cell phone is sort of a super power now in the DC universe. You don't need lightning, a mystical patron, chemicals, or some esoteric regimen of physical conditioning to fight crime anymore. Now you just need a spinal injury and a lot of computers and Batman probably paying for it all. (According to the same people who constantly make fun of mongoose blood as a secret origin.)
I found out about what happened to Wendy post Wonder Dog second hand, because I FINALLY stopped reading DC comics (instead of merely dropping titles until they showed signs of correction) right when Green Arrow tried to kill Black Canary ON THEIR WEDDING NIGHT forcing her to kill him. It turned out that it wasn't him at all and the real Green Arrow was a captive on Paradise island which had been taken over by a disembodied Morrison-revamped Granny Goodness, but I already had a throat full of bile by then so the damage was done.
I stopped reading Marvel when I looked over an issue of One more Day.
Marvel and DC seem to hate me, and the characters they write. I guess I sort of hate them back. I can't buy comics from them anymore. My nerd-herd instincts have totally shut down where comics are concerned. Now I have more pocket money though.
DC and ^^***** would obviously rather tear down, twist, distort, break, scorch, and corrupt stuff rather than build. It's sad to watch.
It reminds me a little (on a much smaller scale of course) of watching someone fall under a bad influence that moves them to wreck their own lives and the lives of those around them, or slowly succumbing to dementia. I saw the latter happen to both of my grandmothers. One of them had multiple strokes that left her unable to recognize loved ones, and the other went senile and was delusional and paranoid and very mean for the last twenty years of her life. The former happened to one of my childhood friends though he seems to have recovered nicely now.
Obviously seeing it happen to the big two comic companies for about thirty years is not nearly as bad but it does provoke a similar if more minor reaction in me of sadness and bitter anger.
I do watch a lot of the DC animated stuff including Young justice and Brave and the Bold. I'd probably watch the Avengers cartoon too if I could find it. I think its on one of the Disney channels but I'm not sure. I may just buy the DVD's that are out. And yeah I know about the 'Ultimate' elements mixed in.
I recently watched 'All Star Superman' and it left me feeling out in the cold. Was that the same as the comic? Superman is so cool that we all want to watch him die giving his all in a final morbid "imaginary" story? Again? Oh well.
Edited by Emery Calame on 17 May 2011 at 7:56pm
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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
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| Posted: 17 May 2011 at 7:29pm | IP Logged | 2
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That Geoff Johns. Whatta crack-up! That guy kills me...! Or, he would, if I were a light-hearted DC feature from another time created by people who actually invented characters, stories, and situations rather than simply reimagining the works of others in darker, more meta-contextual shades...
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Bill Mimbu
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 7370
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| Posted: 17 May 2011 at 7:37pm | IP Logged | 3
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Emery, you mean to say things got actually worse after that?!? 
No wonder Dark Horse and the other independents get my money...
Edited by Bill Mimbu on 17 May 2011 at 7:41pm
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Emery Calame
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5773
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| Posted: 17 May 2011 at 8:18pm | IP Logged | 4
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Bill comics have gotten so bad that even Bill Willingham has commented on it.
Bill Willigham is the guy who created the Elementals, which was one of the big darker, grittier, sex and violence, shocking, 'everything you know is a lie', stunt comics of the 80's and 90's. (Along with The Badger, Nexus, Dread Star, Justice Machine, Watchmen, Brat Pack, anything that morphed into a WildStorm title, Marshall Law, and to some degree the DM versions of Teen Titans and Micronauts and most of the early DC Vertigo books. )
When Bill starting doing Shadowpact it even FELT like reading the Elementals all over again only with more members.
Even THAT GUY thinks too many comics have gone too far in his direction until it has all become a sad empty decaying rut. What began as his subversive reaction to comics is now the mainstream comics formula and it turns out that 'da kidz was WRONG about where da revolution was headed'. Comics are a latrine now. The thing that these "rebellious/rule breaking/turned up to eleven" super hero comics were originally a snotty response to is no longer around to provide any context for comparison. Without that context these gritty comics have no real meaning anymore. They are a pointless masturbatory rebellion against NOTHING now. They are a bad habit that careless inconsiderate writers can't break.
It turns out that most of the rebels, once they took over, didn't actually know how to do the very thing that they had built a career on mocking, questioning, analyzing, commenting on, beefing up, reacting to, and subverting. Now they are out of ideas and don't have the old mainstream super hero comics order around to give them new ones, so round and round it all goes like a turd in a toilet bowl with evil sado-punk Mary Marvel and Batman selling crime fighting franchises, and blood-vomiting Red Lanterns.
Edited by Emery Calame on 17 May 2011 at 8:40pm
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Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9031
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| Posted: 17 May 2011 at 8:27pm | IP Logged | 5
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It was earlier than 1957, and it wasn't a reboot. ************************************ You are correct, it was 1956. For some reason 1957 was stuck in my head.
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Bill Mimbu
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 7370
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| Posted: 17 May 2011 at 11:38pm | IP Logged | 6
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Emery, please don't get me started on The Elementals... The early issues were an interesting contrast to the mainstream superhero comics coming out at the time, but it worked because the characters were part of their own self-contained universe. Unfortunately, that comic's influence began to bleed outward from there in unexpected ways... The superhero role-playing game group I was part of at the time held all of it's players to the Comic Code Authority on behavior (i.e. the heroes got docked points for bad language, un-heroic acts like spitting, giving the villains the finger, or worse, etc.). In other words, if Marvel & DC Comic comic book superheroes didn't do it, we couldn't either without consequences... Along came The Elementals, and all of a sudden it was "Comic Code Authority? What Comic Code Authority?!? Oh boy! Superheroes can use deadly force and be assholes now!" Needless to say, that campaign went into the toilet really quickly. Never thought it would be the harbinger of things to come decades later...
Edited by Bill Mimbu on 17 May 2011 at 11:56pm
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Brennan Voboril
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 January 2011
Posts: 1748
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| Posted: 17 May 2011 at 11:53pm | IP Logged | 7
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Nexus always felt to me like a classic. It never struck me as a "darker, grittier, sex and violence, shocking, 'everything you know is a lie', stunt comic" at all. It was fun and Rude's art reminded me of Russ Manning on Magnus Robot Fighter.
Edited by Brennan Voboril on 17 May 2011 at 11:55pm
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Petter Myhr Ness
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 3943
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| Posted: 18 May 2011 at 12:41am | IP Logged | 8
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If FLASHPOINT is going to cause a line-wide reboot, I'd be very surprised. The only regular title this story crosses over to is BOOSTER GOLD, which is hardly an A-list title (though very enjoyable).
But I do find it strange, if not ridiculous, that THE FLASH is being stopped at 12 issues. Since I can't picture a DC Universe without a Flash title, this probably means we're back to a new # 1 issue. Again.
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Francesco Vanagolli
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005
Location: Italy
Posts: 3130
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| Posted: 18 May 2011 at 2:25am | IP Logged | 9
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I think I'd keep the (new?) Superman titles, being the Man of Steel my favorite, dropping the other characters I have followed in these years. Oh, I'd be sad for the end of hystorical titles such as Action or Superman, but that's the collector in me talking. The READER would be glad to have a point in the editorial life of these character where to quit: I have been thinking to quit reading most of the American comics I'm collecting now, that could be the moment. Hoping, of course, that for a Francesco dropping the Batman titles, a new, young reader (or even two!) can get his place. Edit: anyway, I don't think they would do a total reboot... Johns and Morrison spent years in redefining Green Lantern and Batman, DC wouldn't waste all of that so easily. I would have not problems with it (I appreciated most of GL until Blackest night, I'm a bit more disappointed with Batman, but , well, I can reread what I like).
Edited by Francesco Vanagolli on 18 May 2011 at 2:28am
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Tom French
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4154
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| Posted: 18 May 2011 at 5:06am | IP Logged | 10
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All right -- you guys have convinced me! I'm going back in time to stop CRISIS from happening. If I'm successful, you won't be reading this post. Wish me luck.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133694
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| Posted: 18 May 2011 at 5:26am | IP Logged | 11
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While you're there, Tom, tell me to stick it out on the FF and NOT go to DC to do Superman!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133694
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| Posted: 18 May 2011 at 5:31am | IP Logged | 12
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Yah. Then Alley Kat Abra murdered Little Cheese in a Teen Titans issue when the writers suddenly remembered there was still a comic setting out there that didn't have shit all over it yet. Y'know, because she was a cat who was racist against mice like cats are. Oh yeah, and then way back in Green Arrow Stanley grew up into a serial murderer and child molester and his monster was a demon from hell who had renounced evil and he was using it to kill people.. Sugar probably went to Spice's funeral after a tragic death due to huffing gasoline fumes. No doubt both were walking the streets as crack whores at the time. ( I made this one up. I think. ) •• And to think I used to joke that the next thing DC was likely to do would have a tag something like this: SHE is a streetwise teenage whore. HE is her psycho-killer pimp. TOGETHER they are. . . SUGAH AND SPYKE! Seems I was not too far off the money! (Last time I was working at DC I pitched a one-shot parody issue, as a comment on the relentless darkening of all the characters: teenaged SUGAR AND SPIKE - VAMPIRE HUNTERS! I was told such a thing would "damage" the characters!!!!)
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Topic Closed)
