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Dave Phelps Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4185
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Posted: 07 June 2011 at 2:37am | IP Logged | 1
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"22 years for Batgirl, 22 for Oracle." 21 for Batgirl (1967-1988). 22 for Oracle (1989-2011) (Based on the DCU guide. I said 23 above because I thought she debuted a few issues earlier). Although to be fair, it took a year or so to officially confirm Oracle was indeed Barbara Gordon.
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Dave Phelps Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4185
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Posted: 07 June 2011 at 2:41am | IP Logged | 2
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"Ah, yes, nothing like good ol' fan entitlement!" Wanting TPTB to leave a character as they currently are is "fan entitlement?" I'd think demanding a character be changed to reflect a reader's preference would be more of a case of that, even if it is a change back to a prior status quo. ("I want the REAL ***** back!")
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Thanos Kollias Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2004 Location: Greece Posts: 5009
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Posted: 07 June 2011 at 2:58am | IP Logged | 3
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But, it is also ridicolous that glasses can disguise someone or that no one can see a red S through a white dress shirt. Some things you just ignore. The same way we ignore that Dr. Midnight and Daredevil remain blind.++++ Or you chose to NOT ignore them and come up or think realistic explanations, like, you know, there is no reason to believe Superman even has a secret id or that his white shirt is not see-through. And I have no idea what you mean about Daredevil (Dr. Midnight I am not familiar with). We don''t "ignore" that DD is blind. We accept he is blind and has superpowers (hearing, touch, smell and radar sense).
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Kevin Brown Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 9003
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Posted: 07 June 2011 at 4:00am | IP Logged | 4
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You're off a year, Dave. Barbara Gordon was 1966, not 1967.
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Jonathan Stover Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004 Posts: 749
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Posted: 07 June 2011 at 4:06am | IP Logged | 5
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I'd bet that the renumbering of the really high-numbered comics is a planned, one-year thing, and that they'll be back to their original numbering by autumn 2012. To paraphrase Walter Sobchak, "70 years of continuous publication from Detective Comics to Action Comics? You're damn right I'm living in the past!" I'm actually going to miss Phil Hester on Wonder Woman and Chris Roberson on Superman. I thought they both really brought those titles back into focus after the six months of JMS's wanky scripts. If we get a normalized Alec Holland Swamp Thing out of this, that too would be cool, though I'm not holding my breath after return of homicidal Swamp Thing in Brightest Day. Cheers, Jon
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Petter Myhr Ness Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 3926
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Posted: 07 June 2011 at 5:04am | IP Logged | 6
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I'm reading the above mentioned articles about Barbara Gordon, and I'm wondering if these people think it was a GOOD thing that Alan Moore had her shot and abused?
There are plenty other disabled characters out there, and most of them were intended to be that way (Daredevil, Professor X etc..).
Barbara Gordon was the victim of an atrocius crime. And I'm talking about Moore, not the Joker.
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Dave Phelps Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4185
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Posted: 07 June 2011 at 5:27am | IP Logged | 7
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Kevin - "Barbara Gordon was 1966, not 1967." Fair enough. I was going by cover dates rather than street dates. However, both of her superhero ids debuted in January issues, so both ids get pushed to the previous year. (With a slight edge to Batgirl since I believe Oracle's debut was just after the time DC did the "Winter" "Holiday" issues to narrow the gap between cover and release dates.)
Edited by Dave Phelps on 07 June 2011 at 5:27am
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Dave Phelps Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4185
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Posted: 07 June 2011 at 5:35am | IP Logged | 8
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Peter, more like delicious lemonade being made out of some pretty foul lemons. Taking a dismal fate that had befallen a character and using it as an opportunity to build her back up as a stronger, more unique, character. But beyond that, tragedy plays a role in a lot of superhero origins (which Barbara's shooting was basically reworked to be). Liking the character that results doesn't mean you necessarily think the tragedies they go through are "good things," per se. I don't think Batman fans are thrilled poor Bruce was orphaned at a young age. (Edit - ugh! Typos!)
Edited by Dave Phelps on 07 June 2011 at 5:35am
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Emery Calame Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5773
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Posted: 07 June 2011 at 5:45am | IP Logged | 9
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Meh I heard the same thing about Hal Jordan as the Spectre Pro-Tem as a compensatory action to mitigate the whole Parallax and death thing.
It's about a satisfying a solution to me as the Elongated Man and his wife being ghost detetectives so we can all " move on" from the unnecessary rape/resurrection horror-show that DC thought would make a great weekly miniseries.
Or coming up with the" Deathstroke gave her drugs" explanation for why new Batgirl as soon as her book was canceled starting killing people again and stalking Robin.
Just dumping the awful stories is a better idea than trying to make lemonade with them and then convince yourself that the lemonade option ever fixes the problem.
When a writer is an irresponsible jackass and the editor allows it, then call them both on it, don't try and clean up after them or wallpaper over the holes left..
Edited by Emery Calame on 07 June 2011 at 5:47am
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 07 June 2011 at 6:37am | IP Logged | 10
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I get the feeling that DC is going to keep most of their recent storylines such as Final Crisis in continuity. This is just my pure speculation, of course.
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Greg Woronchak Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 1631
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Posted: 07 June 2011 at 6:58am | IP Logged | 11
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makes me wonder exactly what form of reboot this will be, if any
I've been mulling it over, and think DC has an easy 'get out of jail' card ready. There's been no mention about the current 'multiverse', so I have a feeling that if the new titles tank, DC will claim they all take place on one of the renumbered Earths and go back to things pre-Flashpoint.
It just seems insane to me (from a business standpoint) that they'd gamble on all of these title launches with mostly ordinary creative teams and hope folk flock to books because of the premise.
As a matter of fact, I think that would've been the least complicated solution after COIE: have every Earth destroyed except for one we hadn't seen before, which would become the 'new' Earth 1.
Edited by Greg Woronchak on 07 June 2011 at 6:59am
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Ed Love Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2712
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Posted: 07 June 2011 at 7:36am | IP Logged | 12
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The discussion concerning Batgirl vs Oracle is in a nutshell one of the problems facing DC that makes a reboot necessary, and they seem to recognize it on some level regarding Gail Simone's comments about Firestorm and Hawkman's convoluted histories and multiple versions of the characters. When talking about Aquaman, fans are split over Peter David's take and look vs the orange and gold. Fans are split over Firestorm and Blue Beetle with the added charge of racism. People either want a more classic Doom Patrol or one that references Grant Morrison's.
DC repeatedly let creators take characters off the rail, kill off old ones to replace with new, sometimes PC namesakes, all the while fracturing their audience AND their brands. No surprise they find themselves then in a situation when characters cannot hold books when their biggest competitor/hurdle is previous versions of themselves. No surprise that you walk in a store and see things marketed to kids and it's using artwork from 30 years ago!
However, DC is making the same mistakes they did post COIE. They don't have the balls to jettison the idea of four Robins, because each is proving moderately successful in his own way. Their idea of cleaning up the convoluted Hawkman and Firestorm mess isn't to reset the character back to his prime but create yet another version of the characters, the very thing that caused the mess! And, again you have some histories being changed hardly at all while others are changed wholesale so that the history/continuity as a whole is swiss cheesed.
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