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Paulo Pereira Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006 Posts: 15539
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Posted: 29 April 2011 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | 1
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The bottle in that statue looks more like it's of Tabasco sauce than of booze.
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Emery Calame Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5773
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Posted: 29 April 2011 at 9:42pm | IP Logged | 2
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/tcmhitchhiker/1101260117/in/fav es-sciencefictionfan/lightbox/
Killing Joke action figures? Maybe it's a custom home made thing. I dunno. Sigh.
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Kip Lewis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011 Posts: 2880
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Posted: 29 April 2011 at 10:07pm | IP Logged | 3
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Funny how people read things differently. Maybe coming from a family where no one drank alcohol at all, I saw Tony's alcholism as a problem that grew naturally out of the character. and it wasn't just that, I saw him as someone with an addictive personality--drink, women, materalism; all things that he danced close to the edge.
And while he dealt with it in one issue, the subplot had been building toward this for a while, maybe even their whole run.
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Nathan Greno Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 9154
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Posted: 29 April 2011 at 11:32pm | IP Logged | 4
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Amyas: I grew up in an alcoholic household, and I found Tony Stark's alcoholism kind of helpful. It helped me understand that you weren't necessarily a bad person just because you couldn't control your drinking. -- I like the idea -- a hero dealing with alcohol problems. I just feel like it was shoehorned on Tony.
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Nathan Greno Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 9154
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Posted: 29 April 2011 at 11:42pm | IP Logged | 5
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Greg: I think in the case of IM it was one that they thought could be trotted out for a storyline and then put back in the box. --- Things don't work that way. Tony is an alcoholic for a storyline = Tony is now and forever an alcoholic. I really feel like creative teams need to be responsible with these characters... alcoholism doesn't go away after a storyline. Alcoholism is now (and forever) part of Tony's character.
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Nathan Greno Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 9154
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Posted: 29 April 2011 at 11:55pm | IP Logged | 6
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Kip: Funny how people read things differently. Maybe coming from a family where no one drank alcohol at all, I saw Tony's alcholism as a problem that grew naturally out of the character. and it wasn't just that, I saw him as someone with an addictive personality--drink, women, materalism; all things that he danced close to the edge --- I've read early issues of Iron Man. Tony is a playboy (–noun a man who pursues a life of pleasure without responsibility or attachments, especially one who is of comfortable means) Being a "playboy" doesn't equal alcoholism (–noun a chronic disorder characterized by dependence on alcohol, repeated excessive use of alcoholic beverages, the development of withdrawal symptoms on reducing or ceasing intake, morbidity that may include cirrhosis of the liver, and decreased ability to function socially and vocationally)
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Nathan Greno Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 9154
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Posted: 30 April 2011 at 12:14am | IP Logged | 7
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Greg: In his interview on the Iron Man DVD, Bob Layton says that the alcoholism element was at that point the "villain" for that storyline. It was a culmination of, as Layton says, looking at what would effect a billionaire playboy who had everything, and alcohol was seen as a major factor that could bring a man like Tony Stark down. --- I guess if I was looking for a way to "effect a billionaire playboy who had everything" I would take his money away. You could always give $$$$ back to Tony to restore the character. I feel monthly comic book characters should arc through an "illusion of change" in their storylines ---- alcoholism is a permanent change.
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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5089
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Posted: 30 April 2011 at 4:32am | IP Logged | 8
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Nathan, I agree with all your points. The alcoholism story was, and is, a permanent fixture to Tony Stark. It was not something you could do to the character, and then undo just as easily. It becomes ingrained in to the character like making Speedy a drug addict.
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Kip Lewis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011 Posts: 2880
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Posted: 30 April 2011 at 5:00am | IP Logged | 9
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Right being a playboy doesn't equal being an alcholic, and that is why I said he danced wih the edge. Just because he functioned well as a playboy for years, doesn't preclude it. Functioing alcholics do that very thing.
Just the fact that he is a guy with a major heart problem and continues to drink makes him suspect. He is a guy who can't afford to dull his senses, because of the delicate nature of his condition, but he still drinks, still parties, still womanizes.
I still don't think it was a stretch; though I agree it wasn't intended to be there.
When Layton said he saw this as a one time story, I don't think he meant Tony wasn't an alcholic any more; he meant that he would be sucessful in his recovery from now on.
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Craig Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 November 2010 Location: United States Posts: 1756
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Posted: 30 April 2011 at 5:44am | IP Logged | 10
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Great list, Emery. I'd add: Feral Wolverine (post adamantium removal) Superman singing to destroy Darkseid Onslaught doing anything Kyle Rayner + Alexandra DeWitt + refrigerator Jason Todd stabbing Tim Drake in the chest with a batarang while the both of them are dressed as replacement Batmen Ult. Blob eating Janet Van Dyne (or any other panel from Jeph Loeb's Ulitmatum) Norman Osborn crucifying Swordsman to a wall with Green Goblin daggers (actually, this one was kind of cool cause Strucker's a bit of an incestuous d-bag) Spider-Man unmasking during the Marvel Civil War Parallax doing anything
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Brian Floyd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 8582
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Posted: 30 April 2011 at 8:09am | IP Logged | 11
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To me the Stark alcoholism should have been `one and done', or at the most completely forgotten about once Stane committed suicide in Iron Man #200, other than having Tony politely refuse whenever someone offered him a drink.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 30 April 2011 at 8:12am | IP Logged | 12
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I think JB mentioned that the alcoholism was added because Tony's original flaw (bad heart) had been resolved.•• Someone may have said that, but I don't think it was me.
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