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Jodi Moisan
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Joined: 19 February 2008
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Posted: 15 November 2010 at 8:41am | IP Logged | 1  

Yep you are exactly right and I wish you well JB.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 15 November 2010 at 8:48am | IP Logged | 2  

Are you taking issue with what JB said or how he said it, Jodi? There comes a point when altering diction solely to cater to politeness betrays the speaker's intended sentiment. JB might have said "Disrespecting Will Eisner's memory" instead -- but, taking him as both sincere and self-aware, he deliberately chose much more vivid language. And who's to say that doing so doesn't better serve to create a thoughtful dialogue? Sometimes an artful and well-timed departure from mere courtesy is ultimately a welcome awakening shock out of banality and complacency. The old maxim of saying nothing in lieu of being unable to say something nice, that may have its time and place -- but so does speaking out, boldly and brusquely.

None of this is to say that I'm arguing you should personally like what you dislike about how JB occasionally express himself or that JB is proving himself a devotee of Emily Post. But better to be blunt than hypocritical, no?
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Greg Woronchak
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Posted: 15 November 2010 at 9:05am | IP Logged | 3  

I am interested only in expressing my opinions in the most direct and honest way I know.

For me, that's one of the most appealling things about this Forum!

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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: 15 November 2010 at 9:51am | IP Logged | 4  

DITTO. i have no problem with JB speaking honestly and openly.
Heck, i admire in contrast to the mentality of always having to be
politically correct and always spinning something in a positive manner.

Sometimes a spade is just a spade.

-C!
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Ian Penman
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Posted: 15 November 2010 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 5  

My main problem with today's comics (some of which  I do read and enjoy) is that they're too expensive!
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Pascal LISE
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Posted: 15 November 2010 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | 6  

Bitter? You mean… Like a vampyre?
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William McCormick
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Posted: 15 November 2010 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 7  

But better to be blunt than hypocritical, no?

**************

Sure, but it's a very fine line between blunt and being an outright asshole. I've crossed the line myself on more than one occasion and usually regretted it. Complaining about the way you get treated and then treating other people the very same way is the very definition of hypocritical.


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Brad Krawchuk
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Posted: 15 November 2010 at 12:44pm | IP Logged | 8  

The Internet is at once both wonderful for communication (Dude! I get to have contact with JOHN BYRNE!!!) and terrible (unless you know me, you have no idea what my inflection or tone is when I write something). 

Howsabout when we read things we give some benefit of the doubt to the writer? If we read something, and think it's rude or mean, take a moment to realize as the reader WE'RE adding the emotion to it, since we're the ones giving sounds to the words in our heads. The inflection, the tone, the expression on the face of the speaker... we're not seeing those things, we're imagining them. 

Give a little benefit of the doubt is all I'm saying. 


Edited by Brad Krawchuk on 15 November 2010 at 12:45pm
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Andrew Hess
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Posted: 15 November 2010 at 1:21pm | IP Logged | 9  

Gene Ha just posted a link to this discussion on his Facebook page. 

I'm interested to see what kind of play this gets now.
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William Lukash
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Posted: 15 November 2010 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | 10  

I'm past angry, I've given up.

You win Marvel and DC, I'll stop reading your comics.

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Dan Avenell
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Posted: 15 November 2010 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | 11  

Here in the UK, we have a comic called The Beano, it's made up of lots of little one or two page humorous strips, for kids. But half of  its readers are over 18. They read it as a kid, and still want a nostalgic or fun fix of it as an adult.

About 25 years ago, around the same time as Watchmen did whatever it did to the Superhero comics, a UK comic called Viz became very successful by subverting the innocent stereotypes of The Beano and its type, adding profanity and social comment. And it was very funny.

Now what Marvel & DC did in the wake of Watchmen, Dark Knight, etc, was to copy, believing that they needed to reflect what their older readers now wanted.

Whereas what The Beano did was nothing. They realised their older readers didn't want Dennis The Menace (UK version) to get a crack habit or start cutting himself. They could get that in Viz. So they carried on as usual, and the fans, kids and adults, were happy.

There should be a place for darker, edgy Superhero stories, but they should be the ones only available at comic stores, maybe as Graphic Novels, or in an Epic-style format.

But like so many here, I believe this wonderful, beautiful art form should always be primarily available and accessible for all ages. Like it used to be - something fun, something cool, something that will blow an 8 year old's mind. Something he can draw himself - how much modern comic art is within what a ten year old can reasonably copy?

Get back to basics Marvel, before it's too late. You are letting down a generation of kids by not getting then the best comics, aimed at them, in places they can find them, at as reasonable a price as possible (More adverts may help keep the prices down btw...)

You can do it, if you try. You have great power, if you use it wisely. And you know what comes with great power.
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Sean Blythe
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Posted: 15 November 2010 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | 12  

Most mornings, there's a refrain around my house: "Stop treating Internet
comment sections* like they're a real thing!" Morning shows like Today
and GMA are horrible about this — they talk about the "controversy"
surrounding an issue, then quote someone from an online comments
section. As if you can't pull a quote from a comments section that
supports just about anything you want to support. As if it's a quote from
a reliably rational source.

I mention this because — while I feel that the Internet is, on the whole, a
force for good — I also think it's a giant repository for crazy. Being able
to determine actual opinion from willful doucebaggery is, unfortunately,
an important skill when it comes to this phenomenon. When news shows
use comments sections as sources, they know they're doing it, and they're
seeking to stir up trouble. I think most people know this, and those who
choose to get churned up by trolling are, frankly, looking to get churned
up.

Which brings me to this thread. JB, I get that you're angry, and I
understand why — I think anyone with more than a little familiarity with
this forum can see the nuance in a lot of what you post. But I would be
dishonest if I didn't say that I think you take random Internet comments
too seriously — and the perception it creates is that you're picking fights.
Bitterly, even.

I'll give you an example: the other day, I posted a link to a Letters Of Note
article that re-posted your note to Chris Claremont re: the creation of
Kitty Pryde. Their article was complementary, gave credit where credit was
due, and was generally a nice thing. Below that, there was an obnoxious
post in the comments section. Anyone reading it would know that this
person was trolling, that he or she was your basic asshat. Yet your reply
to my post mentioned only the obnoxious comment. Frankly, it seemed to
me like you were looking to get pissed off.

There is, of course, flip side to all of this. Artists are a cantankerous lot -
- a strong point of view is part of the job. (Imagine if Hemmingway, half a
case of wine into a day, had this kind of direct access to the outside
world!) I didn't post this to change your mind, or to change your ways --
only to give you my opinion as to why "Bad Byrne" stories seem to catch
fire, and why the word "bitter" keeps cropping up. I don't think you're
bitter, but I do think you occasionally behave as if you are, and as if there
is no one out there waiting to take the bait.

That may be unfair, but that's the way things are.

*Edit to clarify: There's a difference between comments sections and
Internet forums (fora?). Subtle, but real.

Edited by Sean Blythe on 15 November 2010 at 2:41pm

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