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Jodi Moisan
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Posted: 14 November 2010 at 12:42pm | IP Logged | 1  

No I didn't but I will change that. I just figured everyone reading this read the post was by someone else. 
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Jodi Moisan
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Posted: 14 November 2010 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | 2  

Stan is on Marvel's payroll.  We'll never get Stan's true opinion on what has become of his characters because of that. 

To say this, cheapens who Stan Lee is.
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Emery Calame
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Posted: 14 November 2010 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 3  

Y'know, society's changing opinions about openly discussing the topic of homosexuality isn't theONLY major change comics need to chronicle in a 'safe' but 'novel/shocking' way to become "relevant" again. 

American society is also struggling with a sense of personal disorientation as one of the side effect of rapid technological growth due to increases in processing power and the expanding prevalence of highly automated systems in our everyday lives. 

So maybe to reflect our changing society more accurately,  "new" "cutting edge" super-heroine characters like Spider-Lady should look at OTHER societal trends to embody. 

Maybe, so readers can better relate to her, she should be a recently divorced, UNEMPLOYED, humanoid-robot lesbian, who is addicted to text messaging and iApps, and has a semi-serious drinking problem. Also, she didn't save enough money before losing her job, had bad credit, and is thinking of going back to school via an online university program to become a medical technician. 

Just don't make her fat, or dumpy, or the bottom will fall out with potential readers in the pr0n demographic.

Also suggest that she had a late high-school fling with some other female ^^***** character "back in the day" and build up a mystery around who this was. It could turn out to be almost anyone. The Invisible Woman, Shana the She Devil, The Wasp, Ms. Marvel, Nekra Priestess of Hate, Topaz, or virtually anybody else could be a candidate.  It doesn't have to be a popular character as long as whoever it is piggy backs on the events of a past book to gain "credibility" and surprise readers who thought they "knew" that character. 

Also we might as well have her $#@# Normal Osbourne too in a really weird one night stand that won't won't make sense to readers because they suffer from madonna/whore misconceptions about female characters and women. 

^^***** needs their books to get press, and they need to squeeze money out of the sheep that are still in the pen. They cannot play favorites or show mercy or worry about the long term costs. The comics business is growing colder, so ^^***** must  make 'more fire' no matter what, even if they must burn every log that Stan and Jack and Steve left in the wood pile (and then pack the ashes into new log shapes and burn them some more). 


Edited by Emery Calame on 14 November 2010 at 1:09pm
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Laren Farmer
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Posted: 14 November 2010 at 12:51pm | IP Logged | 4  

Yes, everyone here followed the conversation...but posts are so often clipped out of context by others to cause more problems.  In fact, I'm going to go change my previous post now that you edited yours.
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 14 November 2010 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | 5  

 Joe Hollon wrote:
...Stan is on Marvel's payroll.  We'll never get Stan's true opinion on what has become of his characters because of that...


No, it's because Stan Lee is an old-school gentlemen who doesn't air out his dirty laundry. As JB noted about Stan, he puts as positive spin as he can on things. Stan has never publicly spoke ill of anyone or any company that I know of. Even DC was "The Distinguished Competition," or at his worst, "Brand Ecch," which was hardly biting.

That's not to say that anyone who does have a grief is wrong in expressing it, but I am pointing out that not airing out your problems or issues with people is not a sign that you are a kiss-ass, either.
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Conner Dinkins
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Posted: 14 November 2010 at 1:24pm | IP Logged | 6  

What could Stan do at this point anyway? We've seen how old creators are treated he would just be labeled bitter or worse, senile. They'd say old Stan's not with it, look at all the fans who love the comics now! Were selling 200 copies of Spider-man in a TRON costume now!
Stan has always been about promotion and making lemons out of lemonade, but today it's hard to make lemonade out of Garbage.

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Jodi Moisan
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Posted: 14 November 2010 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | 7  

Laren I could see what you were saying and I am glad you pointed it out.

JB I loved posting in the My Big Fat Gay Wedding Thread, I used to post in there as if I was having a private conversation. I got to know several people on the forum through that thread, that I now look on as great friends. But I realized that what I wrote, was there for all the world to see. I knew those in the thread and on the forum, see who I am and those posts are not, me in total. But as I said I realized that my posts were there for all the world to see.  I no longer post there saying what ever I want. I have taken the conversation to a private thread on facebook.

If you have a problem with those in charge of Marvel write them and give them constructive criticism. As I said before, work within Marvel to change their direction by giving us good products to buy.  But railing against them in general terms in an open forum is something that should not happen.

Words like this :

I'm really tired of seeing myself referred to as "bitter". Let's get this really clear and straight in all our minds (no matter how tiny and useless some of those minds may be): I am not bitter. I am ANGRY.

I have seen comics, an entertainment form once intended for the widest possible audiences, and an entertainment form to which I have dedicated a most of my adult life, turned into a niche market exercise in mutual masturbation for aging fanboys and ennui engorged bungee jumpers.

should not be in the same place as words like this:

"One of the most hallowed conventions of superhero comics is SPEED LINES. That's a generic term which covers not only such lines as are used to indicate a character or object is moving really fast, as with, say,Quicksilver or the Flash, but to indicate any movement at all. A body, a hand,a sword, a falling rock, all such things leave behind them a trail of lines,indicating that they are moving. Without such lines, objects can tend to look as if they are motionless. And, since we are in an environment, in comics, in which it is not entirely uncommon for such things as rocks to actually be seen floating in the air, it is necessary to find ways to indicate when things are still, and when they are not."

or this:

"To be clear, Stan Lee told me once upon a time that I could trust the characters to tell me what kinds of stories they wanted to be in. I took this to mean that when the mojo is really humming, that is what it FEELS like. But in the end, despite the best efforts of some writers to maintain the illusion of writing as some kind of quasi-mystical experience, the reality is that nothing happens but that the writer wants it to happen (barring editorial interventions, of course!). "

* the way I can pull up those 2 examples is because I have a file in word titled "Byrne's Wisdom on comics" because you say some of the coolest things I have ever read, about the mechanics of comics.

JB you are a public figure unfortunately what you say takes on more meanings and weight. You don't have the luxury of saying whatever you want and it go unnoticed, the negative stuff you say, gets blogs written about it. Is it unfair, yes it is, but it is the nature of the beast.



Edited by Jodi Moisan on 14 November 2010 at 2:33pm
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Joe Hollon
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Posted: 14 November 2010 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | 8  

I wrote: "Stan is on Marvel's payroll.  We'll never get Stan's true opinion on what has become of his characters because of that. "

**********

Jodi wrote: "
To say this, cheapens who Stan Lee is."

**********

Matt wrote: "No, it's because Stan Lee is an old-school gentlemen who doesn't air out his dirty laundry."

***********

I didn't mean that as a dig at Stan Lee.  No one loves Stan more than me!  It's just the truth.  I think he has a $1 million annual salary from Marvel for as long as he lives to essentially be an ambassador for Marvel Comics.  I assume part of the conditions of that million dollar salary would be that he doesn't publicly slam the company. 

Everything else you guys said is true too.  He's always been positive and always looking forward so he probably wouldn't slam them anyway even if he privately disapproved of Marvel Comics.


Edited by Joe Hollon on 14 November 2010 at 1:56pm
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 14 November 2010 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | 9  

Joe, I think the difference on views here is that you seem to think Stan Lee will not slam Marvel because he is getting paid by them, while I think Stan wouldn't slam anybody in public because that has never been his way, payroll or not.
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Joe Hollon
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Posted: 14 November 2010 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | 10  

And I just said I agreed with that as well.
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Martin Redmond
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Posted: 14 November 2010 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | 11  


 QUOTE:
remember a time when I was angry at IMAGE, for blotting the landscape with their crap comics.

I hated DC & Marvel more for altering their entire lines so as to emulate Image instead of  keeping the copies to a few titles or not emulating them at all.

The Image guys were ruining their own properties, nobody was forcing M and DC to do the same. Anyway, it just goes to show how homogenic the industry is every decade. You get to chose from 300 books a month and they're nearly all done with the same type of reader in mind.

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Francesco Vanagolli
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Posted: 14 November 2010 at 3:46pm | IP Logged | 12  

John Byrne:

 QUOTE:
And, ladies and gentlemen, I am PISSED.


Like, I think/hope, everyone who really cares about comic books. At least American comic books.

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