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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18175
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| Posted: 08 September 2010 at 4:57pm | IP Logged | 1
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Those things you mentioned have nothing to do with God, these are all about religion ----------- Stopped reading there. Too much stupid.
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Marcio Ferreira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2518
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| Posted: 08 September 2010 at 4:59pm | IP Logged | 2
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The idea that proving or disproving the existence of a "higher power", hereinafter and in the hereafter, referred to as "God", would not "change lives" is, well absurd. It would have a profound and disturbing effect on MY life if such a deity were somehow proven to exist.
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No, it is not absurd, because for all we know, he probably does not exist.
If something happens that ends up proving that "God" exists (soooo unlikely), then so what?
He will not show up and say "ok guys, now you find me, I'm here, ask all the questions"...
Nothing will change, the world will continue to be chaotic place and "God" will continue to do what he does best, whatever that is.
In the end, some people may start to over think the discovery, others will certainly deny it until the end of the days, and some may say that this is devils deed.
Even if Jesus comes back from the grave, with Marylin Monroe and Gandhi, saying that "God" send them to prove that he is real, well, most people would say that it would be blasphemy and devil would be blamed for everything.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134181
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| Posted: 08 September 2010 at 5:01pm | IP Logged | 3
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…stupid people don't need religion to be stupid…•• But it helps! We all get our religious indoctrination when we are young and "stupid" -- ie, unable to make judgments for ourselves beyond the most simple kind, and therefore dependent upon authority figures to make them for us. Polls show the smarter (and, perhaps not coincidentally, richer) people are, the less likely they are to belong to any organized religion, or to believe in a "higher power".
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Marcio Ferreira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2518
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| Posted: 08 September 2010 at 5:01pm | IP Logged | 4
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Stopped reading there. Too much stupid.
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And internet politeness never ceases to surprise me....
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Paul Gibney
Byrne Robotics Member.
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1086
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| Posted: 08 September 2010 at 6:12pm | IP Logged | 5
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As to the reasons people have various non-rational beliefs (I include most Religions in that group) I refer you to this weeks eSkeptic article (about halfway down the page): by Marjaana Lindeman & Kia Aarnio. The authors suggest it's not stupidity as such that leads to these beliefs.
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18175
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| Posted: 08 September 2010 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | 6
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I think intelligence is not much the determinant as education. Some pretty smart people still believe some pretty stupid shit - and, being smart, they are able to contort logic pretty impressively in the process.
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Keith Thomas
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 3082
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| Posted: 08 September 2010 at 10:23pm | IP Logged | 7
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We all get our religious indoctrination when we are young and "stupid" -- ie, unable to make judgments for ourselves beyond the most simple kind, and therefore dependent upon authority figures to make them for us. Most of the religious extremists I've met "found" Jesus later in life after living their younger days in "sin".
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Thomas Woods
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1356
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| Posted: 08 September 2010 at 11:01pm | IP Logged | 8
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If Israel is wiped out by Iran, or the Jews are pushed out of the land again, then that would prove Bible believers wrong, or force any remaining believers to drastically re-interpret the scriptures.
According to what I have read, the scriptures predicted that Israel would fall twice, and twice the Jews would come back to their land.
The first time was after they were scattered by the Assyrian and Babylonian armies. The 2nd time was after WWII.
For Christ to return the following has to take place, or the Bible is a lie: - Israel must be attacked by Iran, Libya, and Ethiopia. In Ezekiel's day these nations were known as Persia, Put, and Cush.
- Also involved in this future attack is a nation named Gog, living in the land of Magog in the far north. Moscow is located directly north of Jerusalem.
- Somehow, Israel has to win against these and other nations in this large battle.
- Israel must also rebuild the Jewish Temple on the Temple Mount. They currently cannot do this because the Dome of the Rock, a Muslim temple, occupies that space.
- The Bible says Israel WILL build the Temple, but in order to do so, a significant event would have to occur to remove the Dome of the Rock. Right now, it is impossible, because the Muslims will not stand for it.
So to me, 2 thing could settle it all. Israel is wiped out, or they lose Israel again. OR, let them build the temple and nothing happens within 3 years, all bets are off.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134181
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| Posted: 09 September 2010 at 2:55am | IP Logged | 9
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If Israel is wiped out by Iran, or the Jews are pushed out of the land again, then that would prove Bible believers wrong, or force any remaining believers to drastically re-interpret the scriptures.•• Believers have been reinterpreting Scripture for close to two millennia! The audience to who Jesus is alleged to have preached had a very different set of expectations from what modern believers hold near and dear -- and remember, Jesus died after having promised that all he had taught would be fulfilled WITHIN THE LIFETIMES of those to whom he preached, TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO!
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Bill Cox
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 November 2004
Posts: 213
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| Posted: 09 September 2010 at 6:02am | IP Logged | 10
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-- and remember, Jesus died after having promised that all he had taught would be fulfilled WITHIN THE LIFETIMES of those to whom he preached, TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO! Thats news to me...where does it say that?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134181
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| Posted: 09 September 2010 at 6:32am | IP Logged | 11
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-- and remember, Jesus died after having promised that all he had taught would be fulfilled WITHIN THE LIFETIMES of those to whom he preached, TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO!== Thats news to me...where does it say that? •• Oh, please! Matthew 16: [27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. [28] Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. (emphasis added for the addled)
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Don Zomberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 November 2005
Posts: 2355
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| Posted: 09 September 2010 at 6:47am | IP Logged | 12
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That's news to me... Also, Bill, Jesus requires us to hate our parents and sell all our material possessions and give the money to the poor, right in line with Republican family values and free market capitalism. It's exhausting telling Xtians exactly what they're religion teaches.
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