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Mike Benson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 January 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 835
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| Posted: 25 March 2010 at 5:15pm | IP Logged | 1
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I understand. Those stupid facts get in the way of more arguments.
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Marc M. Woolman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 2096
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| Posted: 25 March 2010 at 5:15pm | IP Logged | 2
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What of the people in America who's insurance deems proven medical treatments as experimental and therefore don't cover them? Or the people who die because the nearest emergency room wasn't on the list of approved hospitals their insurance would cover treatment at? Or the fact that prescription medicines cost a fraction of their U.S.purchase price in other countries? Or that the insurance industry rewards (with bonuses) people that can increase the number of claims the insurance company can deny above the mandatory 10%?
Please. Insurance is exactly the the wrong kind of model to base health care on. All insurance works on the idea that the insurer will collect more in paid premiums from a person than they will ever have to pay out (in this case, for medical treatments) for that person. Since Health care is so expensive this model will not work and the only way to make a profit is to deny claims and coverage.
All Health care in the U.S. should be Universal and paid for by taxes (like every other civilized, modern country) or all of the health insurers should be required to to be Non-profit companies.
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Mike Benson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 January 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 835
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| Posted: 25 March 2010 at 5:21pm | IP Logged | 3
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Unfortunately Marc, most levels of government have proven incapable of managing healthcare with any level of competency that could keep the system solvent. This is why Medicare, Medicaid and Tricare (military health "insurance") have all been privatized for the most part. I'm not saying that universal healthcare isn't a great idea, or one that we should strive toward. In fact, I think that we should be. But the government has to get a lot better at not going broke before that can happen with any success.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 25 March 2010 at 5:27pm | IP Logged | 4
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"All Health care in the U.S. should be Universal and paid for by taxes (like every other civilized, modern country) or all of the health insurers should be required to to be Non-profit companies."
Eventually, yes. The bill they are passing will have to suffice for now. It will take a while for some people to realize that giving everyone the right to health care won't destroy capitalism, won't bankrupt the country, won't threaten our culture, etc, etc. If anything, it will make our country better off financially, our people more productive and our culture more civilized.
And yes, we each must take responsibility for our own health. In fact, most of us are already, and you'd have to be a fool elitist to think otherwise. There will always be sick and the needy people in the world, no matter what. They are not the problem. Neglecting them, making them scapegoats, that is a problem.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 25 March 2010 at 5:33pm
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 25 March 2010 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | 5
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"Unfortunately Marc, most levels of government have proven incapable of managing healthcare with any level of competency that could keep the system solvent. "
So by the same token, the banking sector should be socialized, because Wall Street certainly wasn't able to keep the financial sector solvent.
If government bureaucracy is broken, then fix it. Outsourcing it to profit-driven private enterprise can actually make the problem worse.
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Mike Benson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 January 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 835
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| Posted: 25 March 2010 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | 6
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In fact, most of us are already, and you'd have to be an elitist to think otherwise. *** You're kidding, right?
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Mike Benson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 January 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 835
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| Posted: 25 March 2010 at 5:35pm | IP Logged | 7
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So by the same token, the banking sector should be socialized, because Wall Street certainly wasn't able to keep the financial sector solvent.
If government bureaucracy is broken, then fix it. Outsourcing it to profit-driven private enterprise can actually make the problem worse.
*** Ummm...that's the exact opposite of what I said, actually. The government turned those programs over to the private sector. Not the other way around.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 25 March 2010 at 5:43pm | IP Logged | 8
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Most people I know try to make the right dietary choices and get some exercise. No, they won't make the cover of a fitness magazine, and it cannot be expected that optimum health be the norm.
A health care system that serves only the fit and the fortunate is no health care system at all. It would be a eugenics program.
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Marc M. Woolman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 2096
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| Posted: 25 March 2010 at 5:45pm | IP Logged | 9
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I guess than that America doesn't have the greatest government in the world because plenty of other countries have government run health care that works better than the U.S. private model. (and here I thought America was supposed to be the greatest country on Earth)
Maybe the reason why the few forms of Government run health care in the U.S. apparently haven't worked is because one of the only 2 real political parties doesn''t want it to?
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Michael Retour
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 May 2006
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| Posted: 25 March 2010 at 5:55pm | IP Logged | 10
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Marc the parties are not as independent as all that. Finance plays a large role and insurance is a subset of finance.
Finance in the States runs the show in many areas.
We have a few underlings for finance here that want to give us lessons in how things work from the view of a tick sucking blood off a corpse. Not a pretty sight.
It's a job.
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Mike Benson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 January 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 835
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| Posted: 25 March 2010 at 6:26pm | IP Logged | 11
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Most people I know try to make the right dietary choices and get some exercise. **** I don't disbelieve you. And many people do. Unfortunately, most do not. The majority of people in this country have become overweight, sedentary and riddled with disease and affliction because of it, at least according to those elitists at the CDC. I can't imagine that anyone not living under the proverbial rock would argue otherwise.
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Mike Benson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 January 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 835
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| Posted: 25 March 2010 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | 12
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We have a few underlings for finance here that want to give us lessons in how things work from the view of a tick sucking blood off a corpse. Not a pretty sight. ****** Again, with the civility. It's no damn wonder we can't get anything done in this country. Deep down, we're still 12 year olds who think that name calling is a way to resolve disagreement.
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