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Topic: Healthcare Debate (was: Quesada apologizes) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 25 March 2010 at 11:30am | IP Logged | 1  

...



Edited by Brian Miller on 25 March 2010 at 2:55pm
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Michael Retour
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Posted: 25 March 2010 at 11:45am | IP Logged | 2  

Americans are being savaged by insurance companies and Obama did nothing to stop it.  He goes and makes a deal with them.

Sheesh!

Nixon gave us HMOs.  Someone needs to take them away.  Get rid of HMOs. 
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Mike Benson
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Posted: 25 March 2010 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 3  

Probably because Obama understands that the problem is far more complex than "Sheesh." 

Americans are being savaged by their own laziness, lack of attention to their own health and any participation in their own well being. 

And the HMOs you're referring to are quickly becoming a thing of the past.  Given no intervention from outside whatsoever, the insurance industry would have eliminated the HMO model themselves.  They know it doesn't work. 



Edited by Mike Benson on 25 March 2010 at 5:12pm
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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Posted: 25 March 2010 at 1:20pm | IP Logged | 4  

"During WW II what side was Norway on?  I forget.  "

We were on the side of the US and Britain. Why? That's a curious thing to ask when you can just google.

"Knut, since your login says Norway, I dont want amounts, but may I ask what percentage of your paycheck do you take home."

Because I've been taking a teacher certification course that required a month and a half off from work, and I was unemployed without benefits for close to 4 months (they don't pay unemployment benefits if you take university courses part-time) I only made about 35.000 dollars last year and therefore paid only 20% tax (that's local and national tax).

Regular pay for my job as a high school teacher (with a masters degree) is about 65.000 a year.  In that case I would pay 36% tax.  Of course, if I actually owned my house, I'd get a mortgage deduction on top of that. My mother is retired, receives about 45.000 a year and has a lot of deductions for health reasons and a big mortgage deduction, so she pays less than 5%.

But that doesn't give the whole picture. We also have a 25% percent sales tax (with exemptions for food and books), and there are employment taxes or social security payments paid on the employer's end as well.

We may complain a lot about taxes, but we rank very high on "take home pay". I.e. what you've got left to spend after paying all the essentials.

That's one reason I think Mark Twain's "A connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's court" should be mandatory reading. His musings on economics in that book are quite educational.

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Al Cook
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Posted: 25 March 2010 at 1:44pm | IP Logged | 5  

You were also on the side of Canada, who hosted your Air Force and Navy for training after the Nazi's took over your country, so they could continue the fight.

Seems to me most anyone who grew up in the 20th Century should know that Norway was on the side of the Allies.  Unless they were trying to invoke some notion of Quisling or something.  But only a jerk would do that.
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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 25 March 2010 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | 6  

Nice try, Al!  There was no Canada during WW II.  I saw Pearl Harbor!  Ten times!  I still tear up every time we blow up that asteroid the Japanese sent.
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Mike Benson
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Posted: 25 March 2010 at 3:17pm | IP Logged | 7  

The thing that pisses me off is when people say that the insurance companies profit margins are less than "soda makers, retail stores or HOSPITALS". That may be true, but the cost to run any one of those is a lot more than the cost to run an insurance company. Other than the cost of employees and offices, what major expenditures do they have compared to the other three?

 

***

 

Paying billions of dollars in medical claims, perhaps?  I know that this is an emotional issue for you, and for many Americans.  And again, I understand.  Whether you or the other fellow believe it or not, I've been there.  But comparing the "overhead" (not really an accurate term, but we'll let the business majors settle that one) of a soda pop company to that of a major health insurer is ludicrous.  Last time I checked, an MRI cost a lot more than high fructose corn syrup, aluminum or water.   

And you do understand that part of calculating profit involves "the cost to run" the company, right? 



Edited by Mike Benson on 25 March 2010 at 5:26pm
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Michael Retour
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Posted: 25 March 2010 at 4:11pm | IP Logged | 8  

Mr Benson

HMOs are becoming a thing of the past?  What is UnitedHealthcare?  

Mike
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Brad Krawchuk
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Posted: 25 March 2010 at 4:29pm | IP Logged | 9  

Knut, since your login says Norway, I dont want amounts, but may I ask what percentage of your paycheck do you take home.  Most middle class americans usually take home about 72% before medical insurance.  The larger concern amongst a lot of people is that the government will take more and more of our paychecks as these goverenment run programs grow and grow.

---

Roy - those taxes seem very comparable to Canadian taxes. I took home about 80% of what I made last year, after deductions for tax, EI, CPP, and everything. Maybe a little more than 80% actually, since I got an income tax refund this year. 

Of course, I didn't have to pay any health insurance on top of that, either - so you'd make even LESS I suppose.  
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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 25 March 2010 at 5:01pm | IP Logged | 10  

If we don't pass health care - the terrorists win: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20001197-503544.html

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Mike Benson
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Posted: 25 March 2010 at 5:06pm | IP Logged | 11  

Mr Benson

HMOs are becoming a thing of the past?  What is UnitedHealthcare?  

***
 
Are becoming, not have become.  United is an insurance company that offers HMO plans.  It, in itself, is not an HMO. 
 
Look for most HMO, and PPO plans to go away and be replaced by what is known as a "high deductible healthcare plan."  I won't bore you with the details.  But the plans place much more responsibility on the individual by giving him a financial stake along with the insurer.  In addition, most major insurers are investing heavily in wellness incentives and initiatives that focus on encouraging healthy behavior and preventative care.  For example, covering wellness exams (yearly physicals, pap smears, colonoscopies) at 100% before any deductibles are met. 
 
There really is more to the story than just mean ol' insurance companies looking to take your money and then let you die.  Most people just need to place the black hat on someone.  Real life, unfortunately, just isn't that simple.  The blame for the current state of affairs should be shared equally by the insurance companies, individuals and the healthcare providers.  Each has a stake AND a responsibility. 
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Michael Retour
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Posted: 25 March 2010 at 5:08pm | IP Logged | 12  

Mr Benson thanks but I am not interested.  Have a good day.  
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