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Topic: Healthcare Debate (was: Quesada apologizes) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Richard Marcej
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Posted: 22 March 2010 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | 1  

"Mandatory car insurance is a good way to make sure the poor stay poor. Oh you don't have to drive a car. You just have to if you want to work. Especially where I live and there is no real public transportation. "


In the 1980's I lived in Rhode Island. 
There was NO mandatory auto insurance.

 I had an unblemished record (no accidents, no tickets, no problems at all) but because of my age and sex, in this no mandatory insurance state, my premiums were THROUGH THE ROOF!

I'd hear stories from my co-workers about getting in an accident, caused by the other driver, but because the other driver didn't have insurance, they were screwed.

I eventually moved a few miles out of state into Massachusetts, a mandatory auto insurance state, so I could get reasonable insurance premiums.
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Jodi Moisan
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Posted: 22 March 2010 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | 2  

I'd like to note that nearly two of those 7 years have been under Obama's administration. Had we elected Ron Paul (or heck, Bob Barr), troops likely would've been home by now.

You have no idea that would be the case. But I have, to date, sent 3 emails giving Obama hell for not getting us out of there.


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Joseph Gauthier
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Posted: 22 March 2010 at 1:42pm | IP Logged | 3  

Why are you terrified to your core?

I'm fearful that subsequent mandates will follow.  Whatever they may be, I don't know, but I don't wish to find out.

Are you terrified to your core that the Government mandates that emergency rooms cannot turn patients away if they cannot pay?

No.  It fits logically in the conditional statement I laid out:

If one wishes to operate a hospital in the United States, one can not turn away a patient.
But I am opposed to the double-dip that hospitals have made a practice of: write-off nonpayment as charity, but also receive reimbursement from the taxpayer.


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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 22 March 2010 at 1:42pm | IP Logged | 4  


I'd hearstories from my co-workers about getting in an accident, caused by theother driver, but because the other driver didn't have insurance, theywere screwed.

******

My mother was hit from behind by a person who had insurance, but because of state laws she was automatically in the wrong. How is that anymore fair?


Edited by Victor Rodgers on 22 March 2010 at 1:44pm
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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 22 March 2010 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | 5  

Well, "no idea" is a bit extreme.  Ron Paul was one of the few who voted against the war resolution.  One of the few who basically called it straight-up illegal to throw the power to call for war into the President's hands.  And the man's frequently taken to task by the left for being an isolationalist.  I have little doubt he'd want to get us out halfway through his inauguration speech.  "My fellow Americans... sorry, I have to take care of something first..."

However, would that be a good thing?  We broke Iraq.  We owe it to them to fix it.  That's no easy thing, although we have made some strides over all these long tortuous years.  For example, their constitution grants universal health care.  Isn't that awesome?

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Geoff Gibson
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Posted: 22 March 2010 at 1:44pm | IP Logged | 6  

But I have, to date, sent 3 emails giving Obama hell for not getting us out of there.

Somewhere in the White House Barack Obama's balckberry pings -- announcing a new e-mail from Jodi Moisan demanding the war in Iraq end.  President Obama rises from his chair.  Straightens his tie and drinks a scotch thinking to himself: "I really thought I had her charmed in Indiana but she won't let go over this Iraq thing.  Next time I won't let touch my ass."

Truly heavy is the head that wears the crown.

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Geoff Gibson
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Posted: 22 March 2010 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | 7  

No.  It fits logically in the conditional statement I laid out:

If one wishes to operate a hospital in the United States, one can not turn away a patient.

Then, logically, would it also not fit that if one wished to receive healthcare in this country one must buy insurance?

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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 22 March 2010 at 1:50pm | IP Logged | 8  

No not with the current Insurance industry. 
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John Young
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Posted: 22 March 2010 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | 9  

I was just talking with one of our Physicians, (small Midwest clinic under 2000 pop)   about her feeling regarding this first step in passing a change in our current system.  she shared that several of her peers in Canada and The Continent, still ask her why we are so behind on Health care.  Remember all change is uncomfortable. 
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Richard Marcej
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Posted: 22 March 2010 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | 10  

"My mother was hit from behind by a person who had insurance, but because of state laws she was automatically in the wrong. How is that anymore fair?

Did she stop suddenly, with no advance warning?
Were her taillights working?
What was the state law that she broke?

To simply make that statement without discussing the details involved, it's impossible to know if it was fair or not.

When I moved to Missouri I was unaware that I'd need a "City Sticker" on my car.
(never needed anything like that in the previous states ai'd livid in.)
I'm sure if I had picked up a book covering the auto laws, and read it, I could have found that information.

I was pulled over by a cop one day and fined for not having that sticker. 
Was that fair?
I suppose I could say no, but it was my ignorance of that law that I had to pay for.


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Geoff Gibson
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Posted: 22 March 2010 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | 11  

Seems the "baby killer" comment came from a Republican congressman from Texas.  He apologized for breaching the decorum of congress.  These bible belt congressmen, like Wilson and now
 INVISO TEXT (Click or highlight to reveal):
Neugebauer, really need to control their ejaculations!
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 22 March 2010 at 1:59pm | IP Logged | 12  

So, here's the link that describes what the bill does:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1914020220100319

To answer Geoff's question - what if your insurance won't pay? Then you can, thanks to this bill, easily and affordably switch to another insurance. Free market and all...

And here's Frum pissing on the Republican's hate parade:

http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo

Good man, that Frum. If he wasn't a Republican, I'd almost think he was human.

I get that people are worked into a froth about this idea of the government forcing people to buy something, but take a second, shower away that froth and look at the facts of what's going on here:

You're being asked to have insurance. You can buy it or not, depending on your situation. But you must have it.

Why? To cover a few areas: One, if everyone is insured, people will no longer have to use the more expensive ER as an urgent care, they will no longer have to go without to the point of needing the ER, the costs of which, in patients who can't pay, were being passed on to to the Taxpayers. This fixed that.

But that's not the real fix - the real reason everyone is being asked to have it? Because with access to insurance being made more affordable and easier to get, and without restrictions to "pre-existing conditions", a person could get wise and say "Screw this - I'm only going to buy insurance when I get sick!" - like calling Geiko AFTER you get into a car accident.

It keeps things honest.

But it's understood that A) MANY people can't afford even the newer cheaper health care, and B) Some people just don't want to be bothered.

Fair Enough - if you are poor, you get, basically, medicaid. That currently existed, but the requirements are more relaxed.

If you don't want to buy it, fine. What happens is this - when you fill out your tax form each April, if you are honest, you check a box detailing that you don't have it, and you pay a fee.

Now, if you'll forgive me, I have to go celebrate.

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