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Gene Best
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 October 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4598
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| Posted: 22 March 2010 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 1
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Can someone summarize to me why the bill is a "step in the right direction" for healthcare?
I watched Dennis Kucinich interviewed several times over the week, and he said repeatedly that he didn't like the bill, but voted for it as a beginning of healthcare reform. Is it just because coverage won't be able to be denied? Is that the "win" of this bill?
Speaking of, while coverage can't be denied, is there any regulation on what insurance companies can charge for said coverage?
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Mark McKay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2263
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| Posted: 22 March 2010 at 12:09pm | IP Logged | 2
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QUOTE:
| You have absolutely no way of knowing any such thing. It's just a way to put some blame on Obama. |
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That's why I said likely. At the outset, the odds of Ron Paul bringing the troops home were far better than Obama's. He had a much tougher and more extreme stance on the issue than Obama did. His reasoning came from an ideology very different from Obama's (and the rest of his Republican cohorts), and he had a proven track record of sticking to his ideology. On the left, I believe Dennis Kucinich would've taken a similar stance. To say that Obama has no blame on our troops being there today is simply wrong. He could've told the generals, "I'm bringing them home" from the outset. Correct he has no blame for is getting us there in the first place, but he does have some for not getting us out of there quicker.
See above - no proof, just what I think would've likely happened.
Edited by Mark McKay on 22 March 2010 at 12:10pm
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Joseph Gauthier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 March 2009
Posts: 1421
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| Posted: 22 March 2010 at 12:15pm | IP Logged | 3
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Anything on ice is immediately improved. Look at shuffleboard...
You may be right, Al. I became nearly obsessed with the Olympic curling.
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Michael Retour
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 932
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| Posted: 22 March 2010 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | 4
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Kucinich backed it because Obama said if it was not passed his presidency was finished. I think it is finished anyway.
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Joseph Gauthier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 March 2009
Posts: 1421
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| Posted: 22 March 2010 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | 5
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Its a state thing. But arguably, one doesn't have to buy auto insurance if they don't want to -- they simply don't own a car or drive.
This is almost exactly how I would have replied; only I would not have included the word arguably. Consider this conditional statement:
If one wishes to drive a car, one must carry auto-insurance.
Now try to find a logical equivalent:
If____ what____, one must carry health-insurance.
As you can see, there is no equivalence. The mandate in question is conditional upon nothing but our existence; and that is a step too far. It's been my primary concern all along, and I'm terrified to my core about the potential consequences of precedent if the matter is taken before, and upheld by the Supreme Court.
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Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5741
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| Posted: 22 March 2010 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | 6
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Why are you terrified to your core? I think you're thinking of this the wrong way. You can choose not to buy insurance; you won't be jailed but you will be taxed. Are you terrified to your core that the Government mandates that emergency rooms cannot turn patients away if they cannot pay?
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Victor Rodgers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Posts: 3508
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| Posted: 22 March 2010 at 1:03pm | IP Logged | 7
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Mandatory car insurance is a good way to make sure the poor stay poor. Oh you don't have to drive a car. You just have to if you want to work. Especially where I live and there is no real public transportation.
But the state knows poor people will drive anyway just to survive. That way they get to pick their pocket from tickets. The state wins twice. Once rom getting paid off from the Insurance companies and a second time from people they fine.
I think if its important enough to make a law about, its important enough for them to pick up the tab.
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Geoff Gibson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5741
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| Posted: 22 March 2010 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | 8
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To try to keep somehwhat on topic -- do you know what our healthcare costs would be if there was NOT mandatory car insurance? Who do you think would be footing the bill for the millions who would be injured in auto accidents every year?
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Gene Best
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 October 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4598
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| Posted: 22 March 2010 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | 9
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Kucinich backed it because Obama said if it was not passed his presidency was finished.
It does seem that, in the end, this was about a political statement rather than the bill itself. It appears to me - and I'm willing to be talked out of this - that the bill doesn't do that much beyond require people to buy health insurance.
The vote appeared more of a "Democrats have had both houses and the presidency for over a year and need to get something done" kinda thing. If it failed, it would have undermined Obama's political clout - and the Democrat "brand" - more than any FOX News program.
However, the bill itself - especially if it's deficit neutral - seems pretty anemic. I listen to my right wing friends screaming "Good bye, America!" and "Thanks Obama for f*king up the nation!" and "Communism, here we come!" and can't quite understand their reasoning - I feel like I'm missing something.
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Victor Rodgers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Posts: 3508
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| Posted: 22 March 2010 at 1:24pm | IP Logged | 10
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To try to keep somehwhat on topic -- do you know what our healthcarecosts would be if there was NOT mandatory car insurance? Who do youthink would be footing the bill for the millions who would be injuredin auto accidents every year?
*****
If its important enough to make a law, its important enough to foot the bill.
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Kevin Hagerman
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Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18101
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| Posted: 22 March 2010 at 1:25pm | IP Logged | 11
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The reason you're now being forced to carry insurance is because hospitals are forced to take care of you. Before yesterday, you were already being billed for universal health care, one $8 Tylenol at a time. Just very very few (basically the Amish) were paying the bill. The system made deadbeats of us all. You want a real, free-market solution? You put a chip in everybody's head. When you come to the hospital, or when the paramedics find you (or, at least, your noggin) by the side of the road, they scan the chip. If you've got insurance, well, right this way sir. If not, they shove your soon-to-be-dead ass to the side and get back to the paying customers. That would work! I just saved health care for the free market! This legislation is good because it's the end of the beginning. Now the clock is ticking on when the fucking Bachmanns and Palins of the world see how stupid it was to be afraid of soshulyzed medisun, and eventually someone will say "Why didn't we just go Single Payer and tax the rich to pay for it?"
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Victor Rodgers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Posts: 3508
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| Posted: 22 March 2010 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | 12
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You know what im sick of the back patting. The Democrats should crawl in a fucking hole and die. They had a majority and a president and this piece of shit is all they could pass. If this was something the Republicans had wanted in 2003 they would gotten it passed three times.
But here you have the Democrats celebrating like they are worth something. They should be on their hands and knees begging for forgiveness. I will never vote for a Republican, but I might forget to vote in 2012.
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