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Topic: Healthcare Debate (was: Quesada apologizes) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 27 February 2010 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | 1  

Healthcare in this country is far from broken...

----------------

I wish you'd written that first so I would have known to stop reading sooner.

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Jodi Moisan
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Posted: 27 February 2010 at 4:09pm | IP Logged | 2  

Insurance companies require a lot less capital relative to manufacturing, so their profit margin can be a lot less, because they don't have the same worry about paying back capital out of profiits , like a company like GM.  So while you can say a mere 2.6% to make it sound like "poor insurance companies" in real accounting terms they are making some pretty great bank.



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Matthew McCallum
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Posted: 27 February 2010 at 4:10pm | IP Logged | 3  

Mike,

Just for the record: I don't work in healthcare, but in municipal government. My wife is a family doctor in private practice.

And before anyone asks, we live in a 2,600 square foot house with our three kids, we both drive Hondas, and we don't dine out every night or take expensive vacations. For a combination of 14 years in university between us, we're pretty middle class.
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Matthew McCallum
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Posted: 27 February 2010 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | 4  

Kevin,

I'm sorry to have offended you And there might have been some good details that appeared after you stopped reading which may have been more to your liking (particularly what came immediately after that phrase).

But you raise a key point that needs to be addressed: We need to define "broken" in relation to the American healthcare system. To me, when I hear the word "broken" I think of something in pieces, shattered, non-functional, out of working order.

Do you really believe that to be the case with American healthcare? And if so, why? This is not an effort at being a troll and setting you up for some kind of a slam. Healthcare reform is an issue I care about quite passionately, particularly in respect of our aging population. I would like to get your thoughts.


Edited by Matthew McCallum on 27 February 2010 at 4:49pm
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Matthew McCallum
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Posted: 27 February 2010 at 4:22pm | IP Logged | 5  

Jodi,

I agree with you fully. Honestly.

And so, would you please share with us the profit margin for a number of other manufacturers and industries, and let's see how out-of-whack the "great bank" made by the healthcare insurance companies is compared to other industries.

If these guys prove to be the new robber barons, I promise I'll be first in line behind you with a pitchfork.


Edited by Matthew McCallum on 27 February 2010 at 4:51pm
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Matthew McCallum
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Posted: 27 February 2010 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | 6  

Mike,

Read the article and here's some things that leapt out at me:

"The HCAN report attributed this year's profits largely to insurers' dropping coverage of 2.7 million people, who then moved onto public insurance plans such as Medicaid.

"Under questioning from reporters, Richard Kirsch, national campaign manager for HCAN, conceded that insurance companies don't bear all the blame for eliminating people from their rolls. He said that recession induced many employers to cut back on benefits, including health plans. Also, many who were laid off lost their insurance coverage and were forced to enroll in Medicaid."

Also, all the companies that showed an increase in profits showed a decrease in enrollment. Cigna showed the greatest decrease in enrollment, and the greatest increase in profit. Conversely, Aetna showed a decrease in profit while gaining an increase in enrollment.

Do you see the correlation?

Here's another interesting fact from the article:

"Indeed, a recent report by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Service (CMS) found that health spending grew 5.7 percent, reaching $2.5 trillion in 2009, even though that overall economy declined by 1 percent. The report pointed to increased spending on hospitals, doctors, and medications as major drivers in the rising cost of health care."

So, how does government-run healthcare insurance which will increase demand for services, decrease the cost of hospitals, doctors and medications? Yes, it may move some people from receiving treatment at the emergency room (which is more expensive and cannot be refused by law) to the family doctor's office, but that isn't the major problem for the system.


Edited by Matthew McCallum on 27 February 2010 at 5:20pm
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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 27 February 2010 at 4:38pm | IP Logged | 7  

Parker Griffith sent me a survey. Something along the lines of do you hate helth care reform because? I genuinely hate this man. I feel like crap but im going to fill it out and tell him what an asshole he is.


Edited by Victor Rodgers on 27 February 2010 at 4:59pm
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 27 February 2010 at 4:49pm | IP Logged | 8  

Oh, yeah, Matthew - no, that's why I was vague - I wasn't sure if it was you or her.

A family doctor in private practive, eh?  Is she using EMRs?  I'd be happy to give her some tips!  My current specialty is Ambulatory, though I'm really only familiar with one of the major EMR software programs.

I also am firmly middle class - I have no kids and own no property, so it's a bit easier for me, but I have to say - working in health care doesn't make me financially wealthy, but it sure pays better than teaching high school history.  Plus, I don't have my hands tied - you know you can't mention any kind of Zinn in the classroom?  It's all White Man did this and White Man did that, and then in the shortest month of the year you get to talk about George Carver inventing peanut butter and show a video of MLK.  (No Malcolm X, though...)

Side rant over...

Kevin also works in Healthcare, and let me speak for Kevin and Matthew both, while addressing you (post-modern, or presumtious?) - I think we can all agree that Helath Care isn't broken.

Access to Health Care is, if not broken, horribly unworkable.  No?

It's not the work of Clinicians like Kevin or Matthew's wife that are the problem - in fact, America has some pretty awesome Clinicians.  But access to it is the problem.  No?

Is that a safe point to agree upon?

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 27 February 2010 at 4:56pm | IP Logged | 9  

Oh, Matthew - sorry - I didn't address your point to me - sorry - I'm half-paying attention here - trying to clean my apartment, and pack for my next 2 weeks on the road (training doctors!)

Yes, very clearly I see that profits go up when enrollement goes down. 

But I would argue that health insurance isn't the type of business where profits should be chased.  I'm not against the free market, but there's a difference between selling ipods and selling insurance that will help you pay when you need medical help.

The guy making ipods should TOTALLY be chasing the bottom line - every last buck.  People dealing with Health Care should be making sure people get taken care of and if a buck is made, power to them.

Which is why I firmly believe the Government should be running that particular insurance policy - they're not concerned with profit and will even, much to our detrement, frankly, run at a loss at times.  But at least people will get health care.  People won't go without because someone at a Medicare office wants a raise, you know?

No, I get that point, but I think it only makes me want single-payer even more.

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Matthew McCallum
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Posted: 27 February 2010 at 5:13pm | IP Logged | 10  

Mike,

Not only does my wife use EMRs, she was one of the early adapters and you can view her case study at the PracticeFushion.com website. Watch the 2:09 minute video and you can see what a smart, cute woman I married.

As for healthcare reform, I strongly believe we need to improve access and we need more early intervention where issues can be addressed at a cheaper cost (something that can be achieved through improved access). However, based on my experiences with Alberta (Canada) and California, I have grave concerns about a government-run, single-payer universal system. And those concerns were not the least abated with bills that seemed to be rushed through the House and Senate in crisis mode.

This is a huge issue, a trillion dollar entitlement that once in place will not go away. I'd like us to get it right.


Edited by Matthew McCallum on 27 February 2010 at 5:14pm
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Jodi Moisan
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Posted: 27 February 2010 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 11  

If these guys prove to be the new robber barons, I promise I'll be first in line behind you with a pitchfork.

No pitchfork here, but making profit from health care, should as I said above, not be the same as "
an industry that provides non essential products on the shelves".
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 27 February 2010 at 6:02pm | IP Logged | 12  

Matthew -

Wow!  That looks like the software I use - but in the article it's called something different - might be a similar thing.

Anyway - whereas I agree that there's no benefit in rushing something through, and while it is factually correct that the two bills sitting in congress were recently written... let's be clear about this fact:  Democrats have been trying to get Health Coverage for Americans since FDR.  For 75 years.  This debate isn't new.

What's more - as some wag pointed out last week - the current bill the democrats are trying to push through?  It's basically the bill the Republicans came up with in the 90s to counter First Lady Clinton's plan.  So... you know... it's facts like that, by the way, that are causing some Republicans to take note and realize what's going on - thus the calls I heard on CSPAN. 

I don't think there are a whole lot of rational people out there who want to deny people access to health care - it's more a matter of how are we going to do it, what is government's role, how is the free market affected, where does personal responsibility enter into it, etc.  But when one side offers up a plan, and then the other side says they'll use the plan, and the first side still says no, it's hard to fight the obstructionist label.

As for your point about once it's in place, it won't go away - it's funny - I was just reflecting on that.  We have a number of social insurance programs in place in America - nothing like what Canada has, but we have some basic programs that we all pay into and can withdraw from in times of need - unemployment, disability, Social Security, welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.  And you hear a lot from one side of the fence how these programs should be used as an example of how the Government can't run these sort of programs because they're always short of funds or under-deliver..

But they are underfunded and don't always deliver because that same party on that side of the fence has been fighting them from day 1.  They have an unhill battle not just against gravity and inertia, but against those who are philosophically opposed to them and campaign furiously to dismantle them.

How I wish the program would be put into place and then the only fights would be how to improve it, but even when this passes, and it will, the Republicans and the Tea-Partiers and Propaganda stations will be on overdrive with talk of death panels and other bizarre mis-statements.

How I wish...

In other news - who wants to join the new hot-drink party in town?? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02 /25/AR2010022505517.html

I'm joining this one.  I had a great time while campaigning for Obama - it's great to meet with people and figure out ways to better your community.  I'm all for this.

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