Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 26 Next >>
Topic: Why "your old stuff was better..." (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Kirk Melton III
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 501
Posted: 12 July 2009 at 8:07pm | IP Logged | 1  

Looking at JB's work from the late 70's, 80's, one could argue that his work has changed. But one has to take into account: INKERS. Austin inks much differently than Kesel, Kesel much differently than Williams and so on.

Did JB's work change? Maybe, maybe not. Did he get better? Hells Yes.

Michael Golden doesn't draw Acroyear today like he did in the late 70's or 80s. Is is worse? Nope. It's fine work.

Does Jim Lee draw Wolverine any different than he did in the mid 90s? Not to my eye. He's pretty consistent. Some artists change. Some seem not to. But it doesn't LESSEN the skills involved.

There've been comments in this thread and others that Kirby's style weakenend over time, but maybe, he made different artistic decisions that fans didn't agree with? Isn't THAT possible? Instead of 'His old stuff was better' isn't a fair way to state your fan dissatisfaction..I LIKED his previous work better?

 

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Wilson Mui
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4557
Posted: 12 July 2009 at 8:14pm | IP Logged | 2  

JB - What did you think of Karl Kesel's inking on your work?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Chad Maupin
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 January 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 20
Posted: 12 July 2009 at 10:45pm | IP Logged | 3  

Mr. Byrne,

You mention the size of the artists boards being reduced in the early 70's
nearly in half.

Would you know approximately the size of the drawing area of comics from
the 60's era Marvel period?

Was it actually about twice the size of our current page sizes? Just curious
about the scale of the original art.

Thanks.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Chad Maupin
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 January 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 20
Posted: 12 July 2009 at 10:54pm | IP Logged | 4  

I'm usually just a lurker but read a quote from Erik Larsen (posted on his
board) taking a very rude (and a little crazy) swipe at JB.

Obviously John Byrne doesn't need me or anyone else to defend his legacy
but I can't help myself.

I'm a graphic designer and illustrator and I can say 100% that John Byrne's
work alone made me want to become an artist! Of course there were
other influences along the way but as a boy XMEN, FF, Alpha Flight,
Superman, (and many more) made an enormous impact on me. I can't
even calculate how many hours I spent
staring at and analyzing John's great use of space, iconic use of shapes
and silhouettes and amazing draftsmanship. Not to mention his
storytelling, commitment to his craft and the honor he has shown to the
characters and stories.

I'm sure there are thousands more working artists out there who were
directly or indirectly influence by Mr. Byrne.

He's the closest our generation has to a Kirby or Ditko. Period.

For Larsen or anyone else to question his impact because there aren't
enough people running around copying him now is insane. It's also
ignorant since there are numerous examples that could be thrown out
there if one were inclined to be so crass.

How many "Erik Larsen" mimics are there in the industry? Does that
mean Larsen's art is invalidated?

It's not the artist's job to encourage copying, pander to the audience's
whims, etc.. It's the artist's job to value the truth in their work and
pursue excellence and grow throughout their life.

If it's not in "style" any longer isn't in their control and shouldn't be their
primary concern.



Edited by Chad Maupin on 12 July 2009 at 11:15pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
Jeff Gillmer
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1920
Posted: 12 July 2009 at 11:24pm | IP Logged | 5  

JB:
"To this extent I find myself somewhat jealous of artists I perceive as more or less stagnant. They "locked" into a style early on, and stuck with it. Their fans never have to deal with change. My fans have to deal with it constantly. As an artist, I fear stagnation far more than I fear losing readers!"

One artist that I feel locked into a style is the ever reliable Sal Buscema.  When I first started collecting, Sal was THE Marvel artist to me.  Sure, there were others that were new and innovative.  Starlin was Mr. Cosmic.  Adams was a rare treat when his work showed up.  A couple of new guys called Byrne and Perez were making me notice their work, but Sal was the one I could count on to always be on model, no matter what characters he was working on.  And his style hasn't changed much over the years.  It's still great.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Knut Robert Knutsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 22 September 2006
Posts: 7374
Posted: 12 July 2009 at 11:40pm | IP Logged | 6  

"For Larsen or anyone else to question his impact because there aren't enough people running around copying him now is insane. It's also ignorant since there are numerous examples that could be thrown out there if one were inclined to be so crass. "

Now, to be fair, when we're talking about how influential an artist is, the issue of how many people are "copying" him is relevant. It is much easier to judge who a person's influences are in terms of rendering and superficial aspects of the work.  Which is why it's easy to trace how Kirby has influenced Larsen, Ladronn, Frenz and Timm. It is easy to tell that Neal Adams has influenced JB, Sienkiewicz and quite a few others. Or that Josè Muñoz influenced Keith Giffen.

And it's also why it's diffiicult to judge from modern George Perez just how influenced he was by Kirby or from modern Frank Miller just how influenced he was by Gil Kane. Or from later Kirby just how influential Milton Caniff was to his artistic development.

Sometimes influences are so assimilated that it's diffiicult for an untrained eye to spot. Or it's difficult to see if one doesn't see the full picture from the start of a person's professional development until the end. Comic Art history carries with it many surprise. Not the least of which is a person's own estimations of what is or is not an influence.

Personally, although I'm still an amateur artist, I am heavily influenced by JB. Not in rendering or superficial aspects (I wish I had the kind of skill where that was even an option), but in how I choose to pose or stage my figures.  And I think with JB's changing styles, that is the one thing that most of his fans take from his work. If you have a different surface style over a JB influenced staging, it's not necessarily obvious how influenced you are by him.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Stephen Sadowski
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 31 March 2006
Posts: 334
Posted: 13 July 2009 at 1:31am | IP Logged | 7  


 I  feel John Byrne's legacy as a master comics storyteller is firmly cemented in place..there's just no arguing that point.

In my own opinion, I don't like his newest stuff as much as I loved his earlier stuff...mostly because i find he draws his heads much larger than he used to...and to me they look  'off'. But that's just my personal preference in his own style...There's a 'looseness' in his newest stuff that I personally don't care for..I prefer a tighter line.  Of course these are generalizations, but  they hold true  for me. To someone else, it could EASILY be quite the opposite.

 I also don't care for Star Trek comics, or Angel or the FX stuff, as subject matter. Unfortunately, this is the only newest stuff published...

 I would LOVE to see JB back at Marvel. To me thats where he's done his best work.  But he doesnt want to go there right now, under current regime..understandable given his own reasons...
 
 Personally, I come here for insights on working in the industry for as long as he has. I love the behind the scenes stories, that make me feel like I'm not alone in my disbelief of the hypocrisy and absurdity of the industry. Seems some things really never DO change from the 70's to the 2000's.

 I love seeing the new commissions..some inspired..some less so. There are STILL things I learn from looking at John Byrne Art.

 Regardless of his influences ( Adams, really???) John's style is instantly recogniseable as his own. The fact that SO MANY Artists cite JB as an influence ( myself included, although Ive never tried to draw LIKE him ) and there are SO FEW ( any?) John Byrne clones out there,proves that he is a true original.

That will likely never change.

Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
Posted: 13 July 2009 at 2:43am | IP Logged | 8  

" There are STILL things I learn from looking at John Byrne Art."

Looking at your latest stuff, I'd say you have a great deal more to learn from JB.

(I'm just being mildly critical, the same as you are, Stephen.)


Edited by Joe Zhang on 13 July 2009 at 2:43am
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Bob Simko
Byrne Robotics Security
Avatar
Negative Mod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 5982
Posted: 13 July 2009 at 4:21am | IP Logged | 9  

No...you're being unnecessarily snarky.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Jonathan Stover
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 June 2004
Posts: 749
Posted: 13 July 2009 at 4:49am | IP Logged | 10  

I'm not sure how to judge whether Gil Kane or Joe Kubert (to cite two obvious examples) became "looser" as they got older, as their 50's and 60's work is often inked by others while their looser 80's stuff tends to be listed as being inked by them. Kubert looks a lot looser in the 1970's and 1980's. So does Kane. But I haven't seen their pencils for their Green Lantern and Hawkman stuff from the Silver Age, so I don't really know. I do know that when Kane was inking himself, his characters often looked like they were all wearing eye-shadow, but that's neither here nor there.

Gene Colan's a good example of an artist who seems very tight and straightforward in his 1960's and 1970's work but who, certainly by the time of Night Force, can often be pretty wild and wooly when it comes to anatomy, perspective and a variety of other things. And being inked by others doesn't seem to fix this (well, maybe it does -- again, I haven't seen the pencils).

I'm not sure that Bill Sienkiewicz is a good example of an artist getting rougher or looser -- his stylistic change from Neal Adams clone to wild, Ralph Steadmanesque cartoonist is such an abrupt and major one, and the work in that later period often so detailed and yet so stylistically unusual for comics of the time (see: Elektra: Assassin) that I'd say the "looser" stuff is actually the more detailed, richer material with all the collages, shifts from cartooning to painting to collage and what-have-you, and all that stuff.

Cheers, Jon

Back to Top profile | search
 
Jesus Garcia
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 April 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 2414
Posted: 13 July 2009 at 4:56am | IP Logged | 11  

Odd turn of phrase. What situation calls for being
"necessarily snarky"?

And to continue with artists who's earlier material shows
a strong departure from their later stuff, how about Jack
Kirby, Carmine Infantino, and Joe Kubert?

These illustrators have evolved so much that it would be
easy to see how they would attract a different audience
at a different point in their lives.

Look at the way Kirby drew Captain America in 1941 and
1964. Look at how Kubert drew Hawkman in 1946 and 1961.
Frankly, I prefer the more flamboyant Kubert Hawkman of
the 40's.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Jim Muir
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1374
Posted: 13 July 2009 at 5:22am | IP Logged | 12  

What was that , Joe?
Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 26 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login