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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133576
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| Posted: 02 July 2009 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | 1
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But, Paulo, notice that to make that work you had to add a speed line at a
different angle than the one on the image.
Don't want to beat this to death, now. Like I said, it's a mistake I have made
more than a few times myself. If you guys want to ignore my sage council
and invent reasons it's not a mistake, instead of trying to avoid the mistake
yourselves -- go right ahead!
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 02 July 2009 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | 2
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QUOTE:
Don't want to beat this to death, now. Like I said, it's a mistake I have made
more than a few times myself. If you guys want to ignore my sage council
and invent reasons it's not a mistake, instead of trying to avoid the mistake
yourselves -- go right ahead!
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I guess I'm just perceiving it differently. I see Spider-Man's head as bouncing away from the point of impact. I'm totally open to the possibility that I'm reading it wrong, though (as well as to letting the matter lie).
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Nathan Greno
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 9154
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| Posted: 02 July 2009 at 5:02pm | IP Logged | 3
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If you can't see what JB is talking about, try animating the punch. Draw a few poses that lead up to the impact... the action doesn't really follow through.
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Erik Larsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 344
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| Posted: 02 July 2009 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | 4
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Paulo Pereira wrote:
I'm having a hard time seeing the awkwardness of it, myself. It seems to
work for me, especially if you imagine the point of impact and the
trajectory of Spider-Man's head-- |
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I saw the connection as being quite a bit farther back than where you put
it. There are already speed lines from Spider-Man's head--extend those
and continue Kingpin's arc--putting the point of impact just a hair below
Spidey's own foot in the previous shot. In that way, Kingpin isn't so much
swinging to the LEFT as he is swinging FORWARD almost directly at the
reader and ol' Web-Head is coming at us as well.
As noted earlier--it's not perfect--but it's not as blatant a "swings left,
flies right" shot as many that have made it into print.
And yeah--artists really DO need to watch out in regard to that--it can
look really messed up.
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Erik Larsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 344
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| Posted: 02 July 2009 at 6:35pm | IP Logged | 5
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I had a good friend go on a rant about Cap's shield and how so many
artists will draw him throwing in a circular motion with the shield flying
perpendicular to the motion lines of the throw. It drove him up the wall.
Thor does much the same and few artists give it a second thought.
It becomes something of a slippery slope, however. At one point you start
fixing that and then you start insisting that cars look like real cars and
pretty soon no women are running in high heals, Captain America's tunic
looks like feathers on a chicken and Batman's mask has seams in it and
capes and costumes wrinkle and bunch up.
At a certain point things are too unrealistic--at another point they're too
realistic and none of the drawings have any life in them.
Where do you draw the line? I mean--I was fine with Peter Parker getting
bitten by a radioactive spider--they changed it for the movie--but I
don't think they had to. If nobody told me that they don't test bombs
above ground anymore I'd be fine with the Hulk's origin from #1, which,
again, was changed for the movie (and the old TV show). A lot of things
fall apart under closer examination. Do we gain anything by pointing at
the man behind the curtain?
I'm not sure where you draw the line.
Edited by Erik Larsen on 02 July 2009 at 6:36pm
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2217
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| Posted: 02 July 2009 at 7:14pm | IP Logged | 6
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Speaking of Captain America, notice how similar Cap's helmet mask from Captain America Reborn looks to the motorcycle helmet mask from the live action Captain America TV movies from the 70's.
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Nathan Greno
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 9154
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| Posted: 02 July 2009 at 7:40pm | IP Logged | 7
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Erik Larsen
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 02 July 2009 at 7:44pm | IP Logged | 8
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There you go--same deal only--somehow it FEELS right even if it
technically isn't.
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Keith Thomas
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 April 2009
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02 July 2009 at 7:56pm | IP Logged | 9
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But he's facing the direction of the punch in this one,
look at the way his foot is pointing.
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Erik Larsen
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 02 July 2009 at 8:34pm | IP Logged | 10
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Much like the Captain America's shield bit--the Green Lantern's motion lines
are perpendicular to the Atom's motion lines. If the point of contact was the
top of the Atom's swing--where the tail of the balloon crosses it--GL's path
works. But it's not. It's still a great drawing and it feels right--but it's a bit
wonky.
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Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18102
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| Posted: 02 July 2009 at 8:49pm | IP Logged | 11
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And it definitely does not lack grandeur!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133576
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| Posted: 02 July 2009 at 9:02pm | IP Logged | 12
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Referencing GL and Atom -- here's essentially the same shot with the
motion of the figure being hit "riding" the direction of the punch.
And one that would have been a tad more fluid if GL had been facing the
other way.
But in both instances the hit figure arches up and back from an upward
arcing punch.
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Topic Closed)
