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John Harrison
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 July 2007
Posts: 1445
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| Posted: 06 June 2009 at 10:47am | IP Logged | 1
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One of the things writers of the Past understood, that a lot of the current crop seem not to, is that stories end. Run two or three issues if you really think the tale you're telling is worth it, but when you get to the end, get to the end.
I've been waiting 15 years for Next Men to end. Maybe it's not a tale worth telling?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133571
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| Posted: 06 June 2009 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | 2
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Probably not.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31289
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| Posted: 06 June 2009 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | 3
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Don't listen to him, JB. He knows not of what he speaks.
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John Farnham
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 March 2009
Posts: 300
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| Posted: 06 June 2009 at 1:11pm | IP Logged | 4
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edited because - it's not worth the effort....
Edited by John Farnham on 06 June 2009 at 1:12pm
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Erik Larsen
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Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 344
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| Posted: 07 June 2009 at 1:42pm | IP Logged | 5
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First I said:
Reality check: not every word out of everybody's mouth stands up to
scrutiny. Sometimes people say stuff without thinking through all of the
possible ramifications and interpretations and misinterpretations. The
idea that Todd's wisecrack was the philosophy of a generation is
ludicrous.
......................
David Chase wrote:
Eric, I think your missing the mark on this for two reasons. First, Todd at
the time was the most popular / in demand artist at time, how could his
words not have a influence on comics fanbase. 99.99% of comics fans
would love to work in comics, a no talent accountant type like me even
thought about doing the books for Marvel just because it was Marvel.
Todd was the defacto chief of Image thus speaking for all of the
founders. |
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Except that he wasn't.
David Chase wrote:
That brings me to my second point. Everyone by
know fully understands the concept of Branding. Image comics was
associated as a shared univere just like Marvel or DC. After the first year
of weekly trips to the comic shop in anticipation of the latest releases of
Image's books, their Brand, in my mind was associating Lateness. Ninety
percent of the Books were late, thus not in the shop when it was
scheduled to ship. The Zero Issue coupon debacle was horrendous. The
fracturing of the Brand into Studios and finger pointing at who was late
became a painful joke. At that time, the hype was there, I wanted to read
your books, but I could not get them as they were not at the store. The
expansion of the "Line" to include other creators was wave two, the
excitement was still there but Pitt and Tribe just never came out. Slowly
it became all about the excuses and it just didn't get better. The 10 year
anniversary TBP came out in Year 13. Image the Brand = Late or what
Wetworks #1 on the shelves = Pleasent Surprise.
Eric, this might seem harsh but it's my perspective on the company, and I
own and have read every single issue of Savage Dragon and look forward
to #200. But due to those early days I have brand aversion beyond SD
and Spawn and just can't bring myself to give invincible a try. |
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Even though Invincible and the Walking Dead have been monthly, eh?
Well, that doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense.
In any case--I agree that we screwed up a lot early on. That is
undeniable. Todd attempted to dismiss that with a one-liner but really,
the damage was done. Todd put out the most regularly-published book
at Image. He's approaching #200 at this point while the rest of us are
lagging far behind. It was an opportunity missed. In retrospect, I think all
of us would do things otherwise, given a second chance.
This thread does bring up some good points and yes--monthly is ideal--
but there's no denying that we live in a different world. We live in a world
where trades are a reality. And Camelot 3000, Watchmen, DKR, Bone,
Ronin and all the rest would make pretty crappy trades, which would not
have been kept in print had there been a fill-in issue in the mix or had
they ended with issues by other creators. Look at the Punisher miniseries
by Grant and Zeck--it was wrapped up by other creators and its less-
than-spectacular finish has made it a book, which has not endured the
test of time. The Inhumans miniseries drawn by Ladronn-- fizzled. And
this sort of thing has happened repeatedly and the lasson learned is that-
-for the long haul--it's better to have a trade be by a cohesive creative
team. Which is not to say, "screw you" to the fans of monthly comics, but
rather, it would be better for everybody if there were better planning out
of the gate.
As a younger reader I hated fill-ins. I'd buy Master of Kung-Fu only when
it was by Moench and Gulacy-- I remember being really disappointed
when there was a Kerry Gammill fill-in issue in Byrne's FF run and that
Hercules issue in Simonson's Thor run was not greeted with enthusiasm. I
love Steve Ditko--but that Ditko issue of Daredevil in the early part of
Miller's Daredevil run was very unwelcome. Yes--these all helped make
the trains run on time--and I guess that was important--but I would
have preferred they not exist, all things considered.
Kirby is the ideal. Monthly--without fail--and at his worst--awesome.
But Jack is no longer with us and there's nobody left who can adequately
fill his shoes, though many have tried.
It's taken me a long time to get to the point where I can write, pencil and
ink a monthly book. When I was at Marvel I had no trouble pencilling a
book a month but doing all three takes was a problem. On Savage Dragon
I averaged 10-issues a year for much of its run. That fell apart when I
became the publisher but after stepping down I've been able to maintain
a monthly schedule. This year there will be 12-issues of Savage Dragon
come hell or high water.
But I dunno if there is a solution for the rest of the world. I guess having
monthly books maintain a monthly schedule and let miniseries lag, if they
must, is better than promising that a book will be ongoing and failing to
deliver. In a world like that--ULtimates should have been sold as a
limited series--not as an ongoing monthly.
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Joe Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6674
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| Posted: 07 June 2009 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | 6
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If you're not reading Invincible, it's your missed
opportunity. The book is great.
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William McCormick
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2006
Posts: 3297
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| Posted: 07 June 2009 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | 7
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The main problem isn't that the books are late by one month. Some of these books are late by 3 or 4 months. Even in the issues Erik cites above, the main team was off one month. Why should I want to collect a title that comes out once every few months? In the case of some books they never come out at all.
And weren't both Invincible and Walking Dead coming out less than monthly when they first started?
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Joe Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2004
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| Posted: 07 June 2009 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | 8
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BUT HE FIRED THE ARTIST and got a new one!
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Norman Hardy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 189
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| Posted: 07 June 2009 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | 9
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And weren't both Invincible and Walking Dead coming out less than monthly when they first started?
------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------------------
They were never horribly late, but yes, they weren't coming out exactly monthly in the beginning. In my eyes, late is late, regardless. There are very few books that I've tolerated being late, but I have made exceptions. Invincible is one of those exceptions. And now, it's coming out regularly, so we've made it through whatever rough patch there was...
...for now, at least.
I believe that Miller and Lee's All Star Batman and Robin has now set the bar astronomically high for a late comic. Lee's lateness on that book has coined a new term: growing blueberries...
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Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 07 June 2009 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | 10
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I think the worst late story I can remember, was DC running 3 months late putting out one of the JACK KIRBY"S FOURTH WORLD OMNIBUS' last year. How do you run 3 months late putting out a collection of material that's 35 years old? How?
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Jim Muir
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1374
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| Posted: 07 June 2009 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | 11
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What's the current delay on ASBR?
The Miracleman #15 and #16 delay of 13 months was my previous
"favourite"
Having said that, I'm not convinced 13 issues of filler by another creative
team would be preferable. More an exercise in treading water.
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William McCormick
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2006
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| Posted: 07 June 2009 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | 12
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BUT HE FIRED THE ARTIST and got a new one!
*******************
That's kind of the point we're making here, isn't it?
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Topic Closed)
