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Knut Robert Knutsen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006 Posts: 7374
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Posted: 04 June 2009 at 10:24pm | IP Logged | 1
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" I'd defend someone until my death breath for putting their family before their work."
Sure. So would I.
But not before the work of others. Millar and Hitch may have had what they thought of as good reasons not to work for long stretches at the time. And not working may have hurt them financially. But when they didn't do their work, that affected the work of other writers and artists, production staff, editorial, the company's bottom line, the cash flow and expected income of thousands of retailers etc. The Editor's job is to make sure that doesn't happen. Which means he makes sure there is enough lead time for them to either deal with their issues or for him to get decent replacements to cover for the time they'll be gone.
And it's not insensitive to expect someone to go back to work as soon as possible after either a disease or a loss. As I said, if you need more time get medical leave (or a note from your doctor) and make sure someone else steps in and does your job, especially if other people's jobs depend on you doing yours. If you can't be replaced, or demand not to be replaced, you do your damnedest to drag yourself back to work as soon as humanly possible. It's called a work ethic. It used to be expected.
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Donald Pfeffer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 March 2009 Posts: 194
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Posted: 04 June 2009 at 10:41pm | IP Logged | 2
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Over the years there have been many things that pushed me away from comics and some things that brought me back. I have been reading and collecting them all my life, but there have been a few, prolonged periods where, for various reasons, I had stopped doing both.
The start of Image comics was one of the things that brought me back for a long while. That isn't a comment on the quality of the books themselves, since they ranged from very, very good to unreadable crap, but a comment on the excitement they generated among my friends who still collected comics. I still have fond memories of all those early comics, even the ones that were terrible. I still remember where I was when I bought Savage Dragon #1: At a train station in Paris, France.
But, yeah, I also remember them being ridiculously late. I'm still waiting to see what crazy shenanigans Bloodwulf is going to get himself into in Darker Image #2.
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Mike O'Brien Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10934
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Posted: 04 June 2009 at 10:51pm | IP Logged | 3
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Well - look. No one is saying that people shouldn't be allowed to have family problems.
What IS being said is that while two guys can't be there for the work, two other guys step in.
Now - having said that - comics are not periodicals anymore - that's my point. There's no news-stand activity. It's a small specialty niche - and thus, really, the professionalism that JB talks of is meaningless in today's comic world.
But then, if that's the case, why bother having a schedule at all.
It's like this - if the guy who writes a column for a magazine takes ill, someone else writes that column. But if an author working on a book takes ill, the book comes out later.
Should the industry just give up the illusion of being periodical by eliminating the format of monthly issues? Should they just publish book length features that are published when the product is finished?
Sure - that's what a lot of modern fans want.
But here's the twist in that one - if we get to that point, where artists and writers are working to a goal, and meeting it and it's published at that point... at that point, using that logic, a periodical could return ...
Because - then we're back full-circle - we'd be waiting till things are in the can before we begin publishing them.
This goes back, by the way, to my call for - "what's next?" Sometimes you go backwards when you move forward - look at music. What's the hottest thing in music hipsterdom? Records. Vinyl is making a huge comeback. (And smart labels are selling records that come with downloadable MP3s of the record.)
Cheap Trick's new CD is even being released in 8-Track format.
So, like... you may have to completely bury the whole periodical format, start from scratch, and some day, in a decade or so, kids whose only experience with comics will be buying books at the bookstore - those kids will pine nostalgically for something they never knew (like the kids in the 70s who aped 50s fashion, or the kids in the 80s who aped hippie-wear, or how we had the 70s revival in the 90s, etc...) - and periodical comics could return.
Not very forward looking, I suppose, but it is a proven business model.
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Andrew W. Farago Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4079
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Posted: 04 June 2009 at 11:52pm | IP Logged | 4
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There aren't that many consistently late books now, anyway, are there?
Thor's already been mentioned, Astonishing X-Men runs late no matter
who's working on it, pretty much all of Mark Millar's books have
scheduling problems, All-Star Batman's a total fiasco on DC's end...but
are there many other books beyond those?
The common thread in those books seems to be big-name writers who
have stretched themselves thin with commitments beyond their comic
book scripts. Their names sell books, and as a result, the normal rules
don't apply to them. And they aren't counting on those Marvel checks to
pay the rent, so there's not any way to reign them in as long as the
publishers are happy with the bottom line.
It might not be fair, but it's the way the world is--if you're popular
enough, the rules don't apply to you. If your Thor comic sells 100,000 an
issue, you can blow off deadlines and editors will make excuses for you.
If your Thor comic sells 30,000 copies and you blow off deadlines, your
editor will throw you to the wolves.
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7857
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Posted: 05 June 2009 at 1:36am | IP Logged | 5
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What I really don't get is how do they start to have a mini series on the shelves and only have two issues with absolutely no back up plan to get the rest of the series out if the writer walks away? And it does seem to be the writer with mini series (Kevin Smith / Daniel Lindolf / JMS - I'm looking at you!).
Also, why then do they give other work to said writer without first asking 'Are you going to finish that other thing first?' (But then, by that time, do we really care about the unfinished story?).
I've defended JMS a number of times in this forum but I still think the editors need to grow some with regards to his contract. I know he's gone freelance (And look at the effect that has had - his product came out like clockwork prior to that (Rising Stars delays don't count - they appear to be the fault of Top Cow), and he was working on two comics a month) but lay some rules down. What penalty are they prepared to put up if DC get a mini series out before he finishes the Twelve?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133569
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Posted: 05 June 2009 at 4:19am | IP Logged | 6
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I'm not sorry to see "inventory stories" gone from Marvel's titles, and I honestly think I'd have been happier getting a comic a month later than sloughing through some of the fill-in issues I read when I was younger. == That makes you a big part of the problem. ++ How do you figure? •• It's the same point made by environmentalists. You're driving down the highway and you throw a bit of trash out your car window. What does it matter, right? You're just one person. Except a hundred other people do the same thing that day. And a thousand in a week. And fifty thousand in a year. If you accept the late books, if you are (unbelievably) happier to get a late book than a fill-in, you are part of the problem. And if there are enough of "you", you are a BIG part of the problem. In the end, everything that is wrong with the comicbook industry today comes back to the consumers. You buy crap, you get crap.
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Scott Daggett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 February 2008 Posts: 837
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Posted: 05 June 2009 at 6:15am | IP Logged | 7
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Hell, I'm still waiting for Daredevil:Target. I'll bet that hell will freeze over before that title is finished!
Look at it this way. Whatever job that you do be it a baker, an engineer, a computer programmer, etc., if you did not meet your scheduled deadline, would be working very long for your employer? Pobably not. If these writers and artists were to give themselves ample lead time then they should be able to meet their deadlines. There just seems to be a lack of professionalism with some of the artists and writers today. To name one specifically, (I know i'm beating a dead horse here) Kevin Smith. How is it that he has the time to write a couple of Batman titles for DC but doesn't feel obligated to finish the other work (Daredevil:Target) that he started at Marvel? And as I reported earlier, he's also doing a Green Hornet story. That's what I call true professionalism, NOT!!!!!
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Jim Muir Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1374
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Posted: 05 June 2009 at 6:27am | IP Logged | 8
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I dont believe modern comics structure allows fillers to be a viable alternative anymore.
Most of the comicbooks I read now are structured to be collected together in one volume at a later date. So: one story told over six issues, for instance.
Having filler material on standby doesnt really work in this situation, does it? I certainly dont want to pick up an issue halfway thru a storyline that is clearly filler. In this instance I am (unbelievably) happier to get a late book than a fill-in.
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Frank Carchia Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2005 Location: United States Posts: 193
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Posted: 05 June 2009 at 7:06am | IP Logged | 9
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Jim, I know what you're saying. But isn't it sad when we accept laziness, poor scheduling and other conflicting interests as "modern comics structure"? Why do we accept that every story must span at least six issues to be considered "complete"? Good god, some of the greatest comics stories every told never ran more that one or two issues (and three was considered "long"). It seems like many writers just want to "fill-in" six issues for the sole purpose of making a trade paperback.
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Knut Robert Knutsen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006 Posts: 7374
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Posted: 05 June 2009 at 7:07am | IP Logged | 10
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How about fill-in Arcs? Say you limit an arc to six issues and you don't solicit until you've got all the scripts in and then you just slot in 1-4 fill in issues inbetween arcs. Obviously you need to have the whole first arc as a buffer to make sure you can start off on the right foot, but after that, you commission the first fill in issue or arc at the same time as the first arc. I mean, the cost is high, but it'll keep the book going, and if people know in advance that there's a fill-in arc, that maight put them enough at ease that they buy the fill-ins too.
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14864
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Posted: 05 June 2009 at 7:11am | IP Logged | 11
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Having filler material on standby doesnt really work in this situation, does it? I certainly dont want to pick up an issue halfway thru a storyline that is clearly filler.
---
Why not? If the material is being written for the trade, it can just be placed in the proper order for the reprint.
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Bruce Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4797
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Posted: 05 June 2009 at 7:11am | IP Logged | 12
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Coming into this discussion a bit late but...
Unexpected problems crop up in any line of work. People get sick, take vacations, need bereavement time, etc. That's going to happen in any place of business.
However, it shouldn't be an issue in the comics world. Work ahead and build up some lead time. Have a couple of inventory stories in the can. If need be, bring in a guest artist or guest writer to fill in.
It's not like artists and writers didn't get sick or take time off back in the 1970s. It happens - but if you plan for it, it won't be a problem.
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