| Author |
|
Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31299
|
| Posted: 16 June 2009 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
its sales level makes it very much
a B-list title.
*******************
So, if sales numbers make a title a B-list title, how can you say Byrne came back to do a B-list title when 2 of the series he worked on didn't exist until he started them when he went back to Marvel? There were no sales in place to make them B-list titles.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Paul Greer
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004
Posts: 14190
|
| Posted: 16 June 2009 at 4:47pm | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
Erik, the real question I was bringing up is that do you feel working on The Defenders and Aquaman was punishment for leaving Marvel and DC for Image? You made it seem like that was the case for JB working on WCA, Namor and She-Hulk, with this quote.
Erik Larsen said, "I'm sure we could have found something to do but there was no guarantee that those would have been decent books--most likely we'd be stuck on a third tier book like Namor, She-Hulk or the West Coast Avengers--you know, the types of books they give to guys who left them in the lurch."
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133580
|
| Posted: 16 June 2009 at 4:53pm | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
So, if sales numbers make a title a B-list title, how can you say Byrne came
back to do a B-list title when 2 of the series he worked on didn't exist until
he started them when he went back to Marvel? There were no sales in place
to make them B-list titles.
••
Don't cloud the issue with facts!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Luca Tavan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 March 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 50
|
| Posted: 16 June 2009 at 5:02pm | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
Erik, the real question I was bringing up is that do you feel
working on The Defenders and Aquaman was punishment for leaving Marvel
and DC for Image? You made it seem like that was the case for JB
working on WCA, Namor and She-Hulk, with this quote.
Erik Larsen said, "I'm sure we could have found something to do but
there was no guarantee that those would have been decent books--most
likely we'd be stuck on a third tier book like Namor, She-Hulk or the
West Coast Avengers--you know, the types of books they give to guys who
left them in the lurch." ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ It seems that on this forum, (if you are Erik Larsen at least) you cannot make a single statement without it being subjected to five pages of scrutiny.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133580
|
| Posted: 16 June 2009 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
It seems that on this forum, (if you are Erik Larsen at least) you cannot make
a single statement without it being subjected to five pages of scrutiny.
•••
So very mean of us to make Erik play by his own rules.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Erik Larsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 344
|
| Posted: 16 June 2009 at 5:11pm | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
There are bools perceived as A-list books and those that aren't. Books
which have had series cancelled are generally thought off as b-list books.
West-Coast Avengers was clearly a "sister" title to the Avengers--She-
Hulk is a spin off from the Hulk and one whose book was cancelled--
Sub-Mariner had a couple runs previously which had been cancelled.
Daredevil may have been huge at times but even though Frank Miller took
it to the top it was a second-tier title. There really are few books that are
A-list books.
Jack Kirby went to DC and he was given Jimmy Olsen--a B-list book--
and was allowed to create his own titles. Those books had no past either
good or bad and for a reader--this was a lateral move to some degree.
Given that Jack was writing his own titles instead of "just" being the artist
helped compensate for the books having less of a name recognition. The
Avenger and Richard Dragon, Kung-Fu Fighter were a step down, for
sure. Clearly that was riding out the contract.
I was never the number one guy. I know that. At one point I may have
been ranked in the top ten but at no point was I at the top of the heap
and my instincts have always been to do what I thought I'd enjoy doing
rather than taking on books strictly because it would be good for my
career.
I've been on one A-list book: Spider-Man and had a short stint on
another: Thor. That's the extent of it.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
| |
Paul Greer
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004
Posts: 14190
|
| Posted: 16 June 2009 at 5:15pm | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
Luca, Erik has done some of the same things JB has done, in terms of doing what makes one happy and not what makes one popular. The above comment makes it seem that JB wanted to work on the "bigger" titles and wasn't allowed. He also fails to mention that JB was also writing the main Avengers title and Iron Man around the same time. Not two books that would be considered "third rate". I am asking for clarification. Sorry if you feel I'm scrutinizing a single statement. That statement holds a lot of meaning inside it.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Jason Mark Hickok
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 February 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 10472
|
| Posted: 16 June 2009 at 5:16pm | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
Erik- You don't consider Wolverine an A-list book? If I remember correctly it sold well while you were writing it. Of course he may not be an A-lister anymore the way he has been abused over the years!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
|
| Posted: 16 June 2009 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
Jack Kirby went to DC and he was given Jimmy Olsen--a B-list book--
and was allowed to create his own titles.
I've heard that Kirby was given a list of possible DC titles that he could take on as a tie-in/launching pad for the Fourth World books, and that he picked Jimmy Olsen because there was no regular creative team on board at the time. Kirby didn't want to see anyone get fired on his account.
I'd like to think that if Image had tanked in the first year, that Marvel wouldn't have immediately fired everyone who'd jumped in to take over the books that the Image creators had vacated. That wouldn't have been fair to the Kubert Bros., Mark Bagley, Fabian Nicieza and everyone else who'd been pushed up to the "A-List" when the Image crew struck out on their own. Fortunately for all involved, Image had a successful run, a new set of artists got to be top dogs at Marvel, and we didn't suddenly have seven new X-Men and Spider-Man books debuting from Marvel in January 1994.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Erik Larsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 344
|
| Posted: 16 June 2009 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
Luca Tavan wrote:
Erik, the real question I was bringing up is that do you feel working on
The Defenders and Aquaman was punishment for leaving Marvel and DC
for Image? |
|
|
The problem here is that all context of what I'd said has been removed.
My point was that when we left Marvel for Image that we were taking a
risk because Marvel would be unlikely to give us back the books we had
left if we failed and came crawling back.
I believe that was the case. I further believe that, for some of us, if we
failed at Image our careers in comics were over.
But the fact of the matter is that Image did not fail--so nobody was
crawling back and we never got to see if that was or was not the case.
What happened instead was that I was getting the itch to do something
with DC and Marvel characters. Aquaman became open--the editor was
looking for a new writer--I'd talked about it with a friend, Chris
Eliopoulos, and came up with enough ideas on the spot that I figured it
would be fun to do. I didn't ask about Superman or Batman or anything
else. I wasn't being punished--I was being given the book that I asked
about doing
I put in a pitch to write the Hulk. It wasn't accepted. The editor of
Wolverine heard that I was willing to consider Marvel work and he offered
that book. I took it.
A few years later I wanted to draw some outside books in addition to
Savage Dragon. I did a fill in on Spider-Woman and found that I could do
breakdowns for a book in less than a week so I took on a few more
comics and did a few issues of Spider-Man and Thor, neither of which
needed a new artist, neither of which were offered to me as titles but
both needed a few fill-ins in order to buy time between regular pencillers
already chosen.
Kurt Busiek and I pitched the Defenders, thinking we could capture some
of the magic from the early part of its first run. I pitched a Fantastic Four
limited series as well and it was approved. Doing three monthly book
affected my health and it became less fun than I'd hoped--so I quit the
Defenders after the FF book ran its course and that was the end of that.
So it's an entirely different scenario than the possible one that I'd
outlined. Image did not fail and we were not crawling back and being
offered second-tier titles. Instead, Image was a success and I was simply
looking for some other book to do in addition to the work I was doing at
Image.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
| |
Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6515
|
| Posted: 16 June 2009 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
Erik: There are bools perceived as A-list books and those that aren't. Books
which have had series cancelled are generally thought off as b-list books.
West-Coast Avengers was clearly a "sister" title to the Avengers--She-
Hulk is a spin off from the Hulk and one whose book was cancelled--
Sub-Mariner had a couple runs previously which had been cancelled.
Daredevil may have been huge at times but even though Frank Miller took
it to the top it was a second-tier title. There really are few books that are
A-list books.
***
Good grief. What a pointless, meaningless distinction. If getting to the top doesn't make a book "A-list" then who the hell cares about the "A-list"?
Especially in a world where "the top" = 75,000 in sales?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Luca Tavan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 March 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 50
|
| Posted: 16 June 2009 at 6:00pm | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
Luca Tavan wrote:
Erik, the real question I was bringing up is that do you feel working on
The Defenders and Aquaman was punishment for leaving Marvel and DC
for Image? |
|
The problem here is that all context of what I'd said has been removed.
My point was that when we left Marvel for Image that we were taking a
risk because Marvel would be unlikely to give us back the books we had
left if we failed and came crawling back.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------
Hey, I never said that! I was quoting Paul Greer, see the fifth post down.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Topic Closed)
