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Keith Thomas
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 3082
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| Posted: 15 June 2009 at 8:15pm | IP Logged | 1
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I know when I was collecting comics I didn't know about (or
care) about the internal politics going on and when I saw
an artist moving around to different titles I always
assumed it was just to try new stuff because they were
bored and had the pull to do whatever they wanted. So when
JB did She-Hulk I thought boy it must be nice to be so good
they give you a character and you get to do whatever you
want with them.
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Jesus Garcia
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 April 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 2414
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| Posted: 15 June 2009 at 8:16pm | IP Logged | 2
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Which Batman does JB think he couldn't do justice to? The
Dick Sprang Batman would be a cinch for him as would the
monster-chasing 1939-1940 version. The detective Batman
might be more of a stretch because of having to constantly
come up with original, clever mysteries. If he had a couple
of really good satisfactory mysteries in his head he'd be
better off writing a novel.
Think about his work on Blood of the Demon. I could see
some of that on a Batman series. Batman fighting the
unimaginable monsters of the night ... something like that.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31297
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| Posted: 15 June 2009 at 8:47pm | IP Logged | 3
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Well, I wouldn't really call NAMOR or SHE-HULK "B-List" titles because neither of them existed before JB came back to Marvel. How could it be a B-list without any sales to say so? It looks to me like Marvel created 2 new titles for him to work on upon his return. Didn't they create a book especially for McFarlane, too?
Edited by Brian Miller on 15 June 2009 at 8:50pm
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Clint Adams
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 507
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| Posted: 15 June 2009 at 9:02pm | IP Logged | 4
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Actually Namor had a series in the 70s that should be collected in the Essential format and the She-hulk had a series in the 70s early 80s.
On a side note, I think Erik has a lot of respect for Mr. Byrne and thats why he is trying to explain himself on this forum. Shows a lot of class.
additionally, Mr. Byrne has not banished him from the board, which shows lots of class too.
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Jamie Coville
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 April 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 11
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| Posted: 15 June 2009 at 9:10pm | IP Logged | 5
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Is that interview online somewhere, Jamie? If so, may I have a link to it? I
think Ms. Fradon's work is really underrated...
---
For some reason CollectorTimes.com is down at the moment, but you can read the Ramona Fradon interview via google cache.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133580
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| Posted: 15 June 2009 at 9:14pm | IP Logged | 6
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Erik "trying to explain himself" showing "a lot of class" reminds me of the
old joke about the man who murders his parents and then begs the
sympathy of the court because he's an orphan.
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2218
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| Posted: 15 June 2009 at 10:20pm | IP Logged | 7
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A couple of quick points in regards to "A list" books.
1. High sales and popularity, can make any "B" or "C" list book an "A list" book. By the same token, low sales and a loss of popularity can turn long running "A list" books into "B" and "C" list books.
2. "A list" books like Incredible Hulk,FF,Amazing Spider-Man,Captain America,Iron Man,Daredevil,Wolverine,Wonder Woman,JLA,Teen Titans,Legion of Super Heroes,Thor,and Avengers (the main title) have all been canceled and renumbered at least once over the last 25+ years.
Edited by Rick Whiting on 15 June 2009 at 10:36pm
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Tim O Neill
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10942
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| Posted: 15 June 2009 at 11:54pm | IP Logged | 8
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I think Erik L's viewpoint of "Namor", "She-Hulk", and "Avengers West Coast" is simplistic and corporate and doesn't take into account the creative approach of these titles. Come to think of it, it's not a good corporate perspective either when you consider the time they were published. If the market at the time showed that readership will follow JB to a certain title, it's good business to have him on a newer title to expand their base. If the artist is up to the challenge of trying something new, then it's a win/win situation for the business and the artist.
But if we're invoking John Q. Public, I guess it's all about viewpoints. When JB went to "Fantastic Four", I thought he bought a one-way ticket to Squaresville. I now know they are Marvel's premiere characters, but from my youthful perspective, they didn't do much for me. It took all of one story to get me on board.
I think the three titles in question breathed new life into the characters in the same way the FF were rejuvenated. I didn't have the internet, comic store employees or conventioneers to tell me what the corporate conventional wisdom about what tier a book was on. I was just cruising the shelves looking for something interesting. I do remember having strong reservations about "She-Hulk", but the cover made me laugh and I gave it a whirl. To this day it's a favorite.
Those were some gutsy creative and business decsions for both Marvel and JB and I think they paid off.
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Thanos Kollias
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2004
Location: Greece
Posts: 5009
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| Posted: 16 June 2009 at 12:37am | IP Logged | 9
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By the insane logic of Eric people doing FF, Avengers, Spider-Man and X-Men at the time JB returned to Marvel were bigger stars. After all, the only reason to demote JB is that more star-power populated the "A-list" books.
Let's see which artists were doing which books at the time:
Amazing Spider-Man: Todd McFarlane
Captain America: Kieron Dwyer
Thor: Ron Frenz
Hulk: Jeff Purves
Avengers: Paul Ryan
X-Men: Marc Silvestri
Fantastic Four: Keith Pollard / Rich Buckler
Iron-Man: Bob Layton
I don't know which Bizarro world you escaped from, Eric, but I think it's safe to assume JB was considered WAY more popular than ALL of the above at the time, with the possible exception of McFarlane and very generously Silvestri.
I think it's a safe bet that giving a creator TWO new titles to play with somehow means you trust him. Especially when both titles were doing really well in sales.
And as for the fallen star, someone must explain to me what the heck has happened and this star has risen again in the future. As we all recall, JB handled later on in his career Wonder Woman, Amazing Spider-Man and quite recently Action Comics. I simply can't see how a fallen star can do that...
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Joe Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6675
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| Posted: 16 June 2009 at 12:41am | IP Logged | 10
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the problem is NO one person can pinpoint '
John Q. Public's Perception.'
We're all him, and we don't all think in a 'hive mind'
mentality. That is the stuff of comic books.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7862
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| Posted: 16 June 2009 at 1:51am | IP Logged | 11
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So, when JB started to do X-Men: The Hidden Years he was back from his 'fallen star' status correct? The 'quality / status' of the character does not always point to the quality / status of the writer / artist.
I think one of the main problems at the moment is that a rather small group of people have got the entire Marvel universe (And probably DC universe) sewn up so that it is practically impossible to do anything with 'your' voice and do anything individually with a character - nearly every comic plays into the bigger picture. Good for the anal retentives, bad for the industry (Especially when many of those characters no longer act in a manner appropriate for someone called hero).
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Lee Painter
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 January 2009
Posts: 304
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| Posted: 16 June 2009 at 3:43am | IP Logged | 12
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Reading Erik's comment, it doesn't sound like he is saying that John's star had fallen, but rather John Q. Public might think his star had fallen. It isn't much different than when we see an A-list actor move from film to tv.
That's what I took from Erik's post as well. There were plenty of opprotunist who saw a chance to trash JB by conviently ignoring the reality of the situation. When you're a big name in the industry you always get your fair share of detractors. I worked with a guy at a shop who hated JB. His hatred seemed to be based on nothing more than spite for some one who had been successful in comics and had an opinion or two.
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