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Topic: Growing Roses and Meeting Deadlines (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 04 June 2009 at 5:36pm | IP Logged | 1  

A question you might know the answer to - another part of the issue is that publishers announce projects very early. It's fine to say "Artist XYZ is working on a Batman-Wolverine crossover." It's another to say "it's a three issue monthly series that will start in September 2009," and then the first issue comes out in September, the second in January, and the third in May.

Why do you think publishers and editors announce books without doing some "padding"? Why are they not comfortable getting several issues "in the can" before announcing a publication date?

••

There is a sad lack of professionalism at all levels. Publishers and editors who make unrealistic projections as to when a book will ship are guilty of a combination of greed and wishful thinking. Frankly, I wish the greed would dominate. Then they might work harder at getting the books out on time!

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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 04 June 2009 at 5:57pm | IP Logged | 2  

"and I'd hope nobody would complain about this sort of situation."

The editor can't schedule a fill-in? Not even a stock story?
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Chad Carter
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Posted: 04 June 2009 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | 3  

 

You simply cannot put a timescale on dealing with matters like this - some people bounce back quickly, others don't. I'm sure neither of them wanted to be away from their work, since as freelancers no work = no income, but in those situations getting a comic book out on time is way down the priority list, and quite rightly so. I'd defend someone until my death breath for putting their family before their work.

Wrong. Wrong. And wrong. If you have a job, and the job can't be done by anyone else, then it's up to the employee to continue to work or the company finds someone to do the job until the employee can work again. And frankly I don't expect anyone to do my work for me. Unless I had a wife raped and murdered and I have a revenge trip to take or I just witnessed an alien invasion and no one will believe me, I'm probably going to go to work. Why is the world full of people who have to cease all function in grief? Grief is horrific, but what the hell else IS there but life? Go to work. Function. Endure, I guess. Or have someone fill in. Otherwise it's just another excuse not to work in a society that rewards that sort of thing, and also doesn't reward hard work. Which is why society is the way society is, in these here United States.

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Andrew W. Farago
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Posted: 04 June 2009 at 6:22pm | IP Logged | 4  

I'm not sorry to see "inventory stories" gone from Marvel's titles, and I honestly think I'd have been happier getting a comic a month later than sloughing through some of the fill-in issues I read when I was younger.  Commissioning a creative team to produce a 17-page story that may or may not ever see print doesn't seem like the best way to get a great story out of them, and 99 times out of 100, it wasn't. 

A two-page framing sequence and a cover by the current creative team was usually enough to convince me to buy the issue, and it was always a letdown to find out that I'd plunked down 75 cents for a story that the editors were only running so that they could have another issue on the newsstands that month. 

I'm not saying that these inventory stories were a bad idea in theory, but in practice, they were pretty lousy.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 04 June 2009 at 6:27pm | IP Logged | 5  

Knut, I'd never use the term "arsehole" but what you've said is incredibly insensitive. In my opinion, at least. The specifics of what befell Millar and Hitch are fairly public knowledge - basically, one was in hospital for a period of time, and the other lost a parent as a result of a long illness. You simply cannot put a timescale on dealing with matters like this - some people bounce back quickly, others don't. I'm sure neither of them wanted to be away from their work, since as freelancers no work = no income, but in those situations getting a comic book out on time is way down the priority list, and quite rightly so. I'd defend someone until my death breath for putting their family before their work.

••

Realistic lead time, and a few inventory jobs in the drawer, and editors can afford all the "sensitivity" in the world. Schedules are supposed to be planned assuming something will go wrong. I've mentioned that I work to my own schedule, usually ahead of what the editors ask for. I also plan a ten month year. That way I have down time built in automatically.

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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

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Posted: 04 June 2009 at 6:28pm | IP Logged | 6  

I'm not sorry to see "inventory stories" gone from Marvel's titles, and I
honestly think I'd have been happier getting a comic a month later than
sloughing through some of the fill-in issues I read when I was younger.

••

That makes you a big part of the problem.
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Steven Myers
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Posted: 04 June 2009 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | 7  

Why can't the fill-in stories be good stories?  If the creators try hard enough, they should be just as entertaining as the "regular" storyline.  As noted, if a creator cannot produce the books on schedule, don't schedule them that many books.  (Have them draw on or two arcs, not all 12 issues, or don't publish the book monthly.) 

The worst ever idea was publishing reprints when the regular team was behind schedule, however.

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Brad Hague
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Posted: 04 June 2009 at 6:47pm | IP Logged | 8  

I liked both "fill-in issues" AND Marvel Fanfare.
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Peyton Holden
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Posted: 04 June 2009 at 6:51pm | IP Logged | 9  

Marvel Fanfare rocked...sometimes.
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Andrew W. Farago
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Posted: 04 June 2009 at 6:59pm | IP Logged | 10  

That makes you a big part of the problem.

How do you figure?  I'm not complaining about fill-in artists or planned fill-in issues, just the comics that were specifically done as emergency inventory stories. 

To name specific examples, I thought that Superman #18, drawn by Mike Mignola instead of you, was great.  I could be wrong, but it felt like this was planned ahead of time, and the artist/writer combo was strong, and it was a pretty smooth transition from one issue to the next. 

Books like She-Hulk #47, though, made me feel cheated.  The cover art was done in an imitation of your style, and it hit stores in the midst of a long, uninterrupted run written and drawn by you, but the content just wasn't up to snuff.  Since Marvel had already bought and paid for the story, though, I guess they felt obligated to use it, whether it was well done or not. 

In the 1970s, Marvel dealt with "The Dreaded Deadline Doom" more than once by adding a two- or three-page framing sequence to a reprint, sometimes re-issuing stories that had been first published just a few years earlier.  Is it better to put out a book that's 90% reprints of recent material packaged with a misleading cover than to miss your ship date?  

Guest artists are fine, and I'd definitely support that concept.  And I certainly wouldn't object to getting writers with constant deadline problems to script shorter story arcs that will more easily accommodate guest writers.  I'm just not a fan of commissioning your B-list or C-list guys who have some free time on their hands to knock out inventory stories that can be hurriedly assembled into something resembling a comic book just to hit a ship date.
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Mike O'Brien
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Official JB Historian

Joined: 18 April 2004
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Posted: 04 June 2009 at 7:05pm | IP Logged | 11  

In all fairness to Mr Larsen, he did turn IMAGE into a decent publisher - I never read an IMAGE comic till Larsen came on board - he brought some great names to IMAGE. 

And also - and here's where it shifts - Larsen is correct in that it's unfair to place such weight on something uttered in ignorance or jest - but here's the sticking point - if he meant it or not, the effects of the statement - the mindset that is now so ingrained in the industry - maybe not because everyone wants to follow Todd McFarlane's wise advice per se, but because there wasn't an outcry over it when said, and to this day, people are so quick to defend it's logic that it's now considered the norm.

Like - I see Andrew's point too - I noted upthread that I was pissed to get the She-Hulk fill-in - but I also acknowledge that I'm not the key audience, or shouldn't be. 

Ah, but that leads to the next odd point - we do a lot of talking about how comics, as a business model, do best with the revolving door of 9 - 14 year old boys, but speaking of bells that can't be unrung... those kids are gone, and is there any way to get them back? 

Comics were an amazing fantasy escape for me and my friends when I was that age - you know, it was cheap, there was a built-in community, and it was bigger than any movie or toy or game.

But, you know, that doesn't hold up anymore on any level.  They're not really any sort of fantasy escape, they're not cheap, the community is a bunch of creepy middle aged shut-ins, and movies, toys and games are so much cooler than comics.

So, like it or not, they really are just creepy nostalgia for middle aged guys at this point.

The question is - what next?  Does it die when the generation after me dies?  (I think they were the last new readers.)  Or does it go in a different direction?  Things change.  Business models change.

Like - do they do away with the periodical model?  Follow what Larry Young did with AIT and publish as if it were a book publisher - complete full length stories?  Or do they move to a Japanese anthology model? 

Or - this is the exciting thought - maybe something we haven't thought of yet.

Kind of key to what's going on with the economy these days.  Computers and technology have changed the way most companies do things.  The ones that survive this wild west economic era will be the ones who "think different" as the ad says.  I have to say - we could be on the threshold of some great new ways of doing things.  150 years ago, they wouldn't believe what we've seen in the last century, you know?  That might be what we have in front of us - a whole new way of doing things.

So.  Who's got the new idea?  You know?  Put on your thinking caps. 

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Andrew W. Farago
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Posted: 04 June 2009 at 7:24pm | IP Logged | 12  

Like - I see Andrew's point too - I noted upthread that I was pissed to get the She-Hulk fill-in - but I also acknowledge that I'm not the key audience, or shouldn't be.

For the record, I would have been in my early teens when the issue in question was released, which placed me pretty firmly in Marvel's key demographic.  I plunked down my buck-seventy-five expecting a John Byrne She-Hulk, and got a book that I read once before filing it away somewhere and ignoring it.  It's probably still buried in some longbox back at my parents' house, alongside Fantastic Four #342 and West Coast Avengers #38. 

Again, I didn't mind full-blown fill-in issues, but I could always tell I was getting stuck with a hand-me-down story when the main character would take a break from his current life-and-death struggle to think, "This guy's really tough!  Of course, I've had tough battles before.  Like that time all of us had to contend with...The Pulverizer!"  I'm not against the concept, but Marvel wasn't in the habit of commissioning their best guys to write and draw stories that might never see the light of day, and I'd bet they're even less likely to do that now.
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