it does a huge disservice to the character. Every villain in comics is a loser if you look at it like that. Galactus keeps losing. Doctor Doom keeps losing. It's the nature of the genre.

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That's a great point. Focusing on the villains' lack of success is a classic case of "looking behind the curtain" and spoiling the magic.

The good guys are going to win in heroic fiction by definition. That's true going back thousands of years. The fun lies in seeing how they get there - in enjoying the story along the way. If you establish the villain as a loser, then what has the hero accomplished by beating him?

Even if the Super-Skrull has an 0-999 lifetime record against the superheroes, the next battle should find the hero thinking, "He's one of the toughest foes I'll ever face! I'll be lucky to make it out of this one alive!" Otherwise, the whole concept of building suspense really doesn't work.

it does a huge disservice to the character. Every villain in comics is a loser if you look at it like that. Galactus keeps losing. Doctor Doom keeps losing. It's the nature of the genre.

************

That's a great point. Focusing on the villains' lack of success is a classic case of "looking behind the curtain" and spoiling the magic.

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SER: One of Marvel's low points was when Doctor Octopus was reduced to a joke villain -- Spider-Man told him that he would always lose and the result was that the villain was terrified of Spider-Man! Doctor Octopus! Spider-Man's arch-nemesis? Wow.

Are you talking about the big battle from Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man #79, Stephen?

If so, I completely disagree. Remember, Doctor Octopus had nearly killed the Black Cat in a previous issue and had just given Spider-Man the fight of his life. Spider-Man eventually beat Doc Ock and when he said, "You'll never beat me!", he wasn't saying that because Doc Ock was an ineffective loser. (Clearly, he wasn't, as he gave Spider-Man a beating after nearly killing his girlfriend). Spider-Man was saying, "I'll always find a way to beat you" - which is what heroes do.

And Doctor Octopus being terrified? He was being cowardly - which is what most villains are deep down. That didn't diminish Doctor Octopus as an arch-villain - it just meant that at the end of the day, he went down in defeat, as he should. If anything, it left him with a great motivation to seek revenge on ol' Spidey.

But if you are talking about a different comic, then forget what I said!

The scenarios I had in mind are those where the hero treats the villain like he's not even a threat. As if beating the bad guy is, "Ho-hum. Just another day at the office." PPTSS #79 was not one of those stories!

Because it brings back the warm feeling of nostalgia.

*These are all the characters, hero-wise that the Marvel Universe needs.

Loved this cover: