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Trevor Giberson
Byrne Robotics Chronology
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 1888
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| Posted: 16 December 2008 at 8:38am | IP Logged | 1
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How can Brevoort tell JB to "put up or shut up"? JB isn't an employee
of Marvel. He doesn't even freelance for them. Brevoort's attitude is
that he and Marvel own the industry and can dictate to any professional
what he can or cannot criticize. What arrogance. Don't they know
they're working for a doomed company? One's that running out of movies
to make? One that has no ability whatsoever to create new, viable
characters and properties?
People have been saying that Marvel is hosed since at least 2001 when I started looking at comics again. Yet, sales keep going up. The publishing division is profitable. The trade market has taken off. They are making inroads to digital comics. Their business plan is working. I actively dislike their product to the point that I don't buy a single Marvel book, but can still see that.
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Jay Mulford
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 November 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 28
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| Posted: 16 December 2008 at 8:45am | IP Logged | 2
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Trevor,
I agree, in that I see it both ways, that Tom and John have points.
I don't agree in the way that Brevoort put it out on his blog. If Tom had an issue with what John posted and wanted to make an honest effort to have John work for Marvel, I think he should have called John instead of using his blog to "challenge" John.
I think it's immature and childish and one of the many problems with the industry.
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Trevor Giberson
Byrne Robotics Chronology
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 1888
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| Posted: 16 December 2008 at 8:49am | IP Logged | 3
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Eh, that is just tit for tat. John went the public challenge route, so Brevoort returns the favor. Whatever. To me all this is just more ridiculous political bullshit that is in the way of more Byrne comics. (So, I'm selfish, sue me.)
Edited by Trevor Giberson on 16 December 2008 at 8:50am
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Richard Callaghan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 July 2005
Posts: 343
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| Posted: 16 December 2008 at 8:52am | IP Logged | 4
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QUOTE:
| That's cute! Aren't you the one, in this very thread, that called
someone a waste of breath and accused someone else of having bad
taste? I bet Brevoort reads YOUR posts and thinks you're JB's bitch,
just like you accuse him of wanting JB to be THEIR bitch. Maybe you
should let the person to whom the blog is directed comment on it first. |
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LOL, glad to see I'm not the only one this "Joe Zhang" character is a complete ass to... surely the very worst type of poster on this forum? (A guy who thinks that JB can do no wrong and is also rude, obnoxious and antagonistic... creating the false impression that the board is full of argumentative yes men).
As for Breevort's blog, then I guess fair play to him for putting it on the actual site itself... regardless of whether it was combative or not, would other major companies raise criticisms of themselves on their own site? See also: allowing readers to post comments criticising Marvel in reply to the blog.
Look, regardless of how people see JB/TB/Marvel/whatever in this matter, wouldn't most of you actually love to see JB pick up the phone and work for Marvel again? I know I would.
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Greg Reeves
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 February 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1396
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| Posted: 16 December 2008 at 8:53am | IP Logged | 5
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QUOTE:
| I think he should have called John instead of using his blog to "challenge" John. |
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That's a good point, Jay, but remember that JB posted a "challenge to Marvel" thread here first (obviously Brevoort reads some of this site). I'm not trying to play devil's advocate, but we need to keep this in perspective. Brevoort is responding on his blog to a thread he read here on this blog, he's not "attacking" JB like some others here seem to think.
Edit: dang, 2 people posted just before me :-)
Edited by Greg Reeves on 16 December 2008 at 8:55am
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Michael Hogan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2061
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| Posted: 16 December 2008 at 8:55am | IP Logged | 6
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All I can say is that in replying to JB's detailed notations on ^^*****, Brevoort fails to respond to ANY of the points JB delineated.
We need look no further than XM-HY to see ^^*****'s response to JB's storytelling prowess -- they canceled it! I dare say that if JB were to "put up" again, TPTB at ^^***** would tell him to "shut up"...again.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
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| Posted: 16 December 2008 at 8:55am | IP Logged | 7
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John went the public challenge route, so Brevoort returns the favor.
••
Except, he didn't.
Unfortunately, this kids-in-the-playground response -- "Oh yeah? Well
let's see YOU do it!" -- is exactly what I would expect from the current
Powers That Are at the Condo of Concept. Small problem, tho.
When I worked at Marvel, all my books shipped on schedule*, containing the
material they had been promoted as containing. Looking at the "challenges"
at the top of this thread, I count 2 that I could be accused of failing to meet.
I created a new X-Title, and I killed Phoenix and Guardian. Of course, when
I did those things, they had not quite become standard operating procedure.
In fact, when I originally pitched HIDDEN YEARS, the number of X-Titles
could be counted on one hand without running out of fingers!
So, I would have to say that I've been "putting up" for a quarter of a century.
When did it become so difficult for others to do the same?
*With the exception of two issues of HIDDEN YEARS which shipped late due
to editorial incompetence. (How else would you describe shipping late two
issues that were finished and in the drawer months ahead of schedule?)
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Richard Callaghan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 July 2005
Posts: 343
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| Posted: 16 December 2008 at 9:01am | IP Logged | 8
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QUOTE:
| and I killed Phoenix and Guardian |
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On the subject JB, did you intend to permanently kill off The Puppet Master in FF?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
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| Posted: 16 December 2008 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 9
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When it comes to villains, nobody dies forever!
But, as I am sure you are well aware, there is a difference between a villain
seeming to be hoist on his own petard, as have been Magneto and Doctor
Doom more times than I can count, and a Big Fake Event death.
(Go take a look at the number of times Doom "died" during Lee and Kirby's
run on FF. Count how many times his "death" was emblazoned on the cover
or in the Bullpen Bulletins.)
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Richard Callaghan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 July 2005
Posts: 343
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| Posted: 16 December 2008 at 9:12am | IP Logged | 10
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Oh, I quite agree... in fact I agreed with the vast majority of your original post.
(It would be cool if you did the FF again though...)
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Bruce Buchanan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 June 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4797
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| Posted: 16 December 2008 at 9:23am | IP Logged | 11
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Judging by the comments on Mr. Brevoort's blog, a lot of posters 1. agree with JB's points and/or 2. Want to see JB back working at Marvel.
I don't much care for these public urination contests. What I wish would happen is for Mr. Brevoort to pick up the phone, call JB privately and say, "Hey, you've got a lot of interesting ideas. Wanna put some of them in print? If so, we'd love to have you back."
Edited by Bruce Buchanan on 16 December 2008 at 9:23am
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 16 December 2008 at 9:25am | IP Logged | 12
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The Brevoort blog is presumptuous, condascending, and borderline disrespectful.
And totally expected, I suppose :(.
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