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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 23 December 2008 at 8:59am | IP Logged | 1
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The only gimmick I see is putting Wolverine in multiple books.
I find their numbering policy (Thor 600 a recent example) is a gimmick. Variant covers, another.
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 23 December 2008 at 9:01am | IP Logged | 2
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But does that mean that one can't be good at both?
Not necessarily, as long as a given writer is skilled enough to know how to write comic books, rather than writing a television script that he expects the artist to magically translate into a good comic book.
Edited by Greg Woronchak on 23 December 2008 at 9:02am
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Bruce Buchanan
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Joined: 14 June 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4797
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| Posted: 23 December 2008 at 10:15am | IP Logged | 3
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That's right, Greg. Writing comics and writing movies/TV aren't mutually exclusive, but a writer must realize they are two different animals. Too many of the Hollywood guys write comics as if they were writing a film script and it just doesn't work. (Joss Whedon being a notable exception - he gets comics).
They also have to understand the characters and realize they are being handed "someone else's toys." They can play with 'em, but they need to put them back the same way they found them.
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Greg Reeves
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Joined: 06 February 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1396
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| Posted: 23 December 2008 at 10:39am | IP Logged | 4
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QUOTE:
| I find their numbering policy (Thor 600 a recent example) is a gimmick. Variant covers, another. |
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I was thinking more along the lines of stortytelling gimmicks. I have a hard time believing a numbering scheme really attracts readers (the occasional reboot start from #1 could, enticing people to be in from the "beginning"), and variant covers have been around for years now. A lot of variant covers are produced in equal quantities, so that it's a case of choosing which one is your favorite. Besides, trying to attract readers with what's on the cover has been around since day one when captions or blurbs would entice people to see what's inside. I'm saying that in the entertainment position Marvel is currently in, if they were not concerned about the books, they could save a whole lot of money by hiring past creators looking for work or brand new untested folks- but instead, they seek out Hollywood trained writers in many cases. Many people don't agree with that style for comics, but regardless Marvel isn't cutting corners with their publishing decisions.
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Andy Williams
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 99
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| Posted: 23 December 2008 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | 5
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A drift to a certain degree but...
Say Tom Breevort actually did pick up the phone and that he offered JB work with Marvel. Say that JB hit his head on the day in question and forgot about who was running Marvel right now and how it was being run and actually took the work.
Does anyone on this board think that JB would be set up to succeed? In order to work on one of the current X-Men books and make it work he'd either have to have a) some sort of creative control over the entire X-Universe or b) it would need to be a book outside of the current X-Universe in order for him to be able to take it in the direction that the book would need to go. Same thing for Spider-Man. Would they turn over the FF and give him creative control? Would they give him the Avengers? Would they give him one of the premiere books at all?
No, they'd either set him up to fail (under-promoting XHY comes to mind) or they'd fight him tooth and nail and force him, out of frustration, to abandon his plans and the book.
Breevort's challenge to JB is only a viable challenge if Marvel is willing to "put it's money where it's mouth is" and give him the ability/freedom to handle the book and associated characters as he sees fit. There's too much at stake for the lunatics running the asylum right now for them to do that. If he's successful then Marvel is wrong. If the book sells and sells well then they have to admit that, to a
some degree, there is something wrong with the way that they are
handling the comics that we all grew up with. If the books sells and all of comic readers who've bailed in the last few years come back to read it then they'd almost have to admit that the current MO has to change.
Marvel is not going to give John Byrne, he of the "Bad Byrne" stories, the opportunity to prove them wrong.
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Tom Krevins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 December 2008
Posts: 51
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| Posted: 23 December 2008 at 3:37pm | IP Logged | 6
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The problem is JB thinks that his last 30 years of work is still relevant or
carries enough "street cred" that will give Marvel incentive to call
him...and thats not true anymore. Times have changed.
JB has no more connections at Marvel and comics today are all about
"what have you done for me lately?" - JB cannot rest on past laurels or
work on 3rd rate licenced comic and fanfic like FX.
JB's stuff does not sell anymore. Marvel has no reason to call him. JB
needs Marvel more than they need him (they have the characters that he
wants to work on). As a freelancer with little or no prospects JB has to
make the first moves.
Unfortunately his ego wont allow him to do that. So he suffers and the
fans suffer. Guess with JB its all about the money. Sad isn't it?
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Tom Krevins
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Joined: 22 December 2008
Posts: 51
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| Posted: 23 December 2008 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | 7
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My responses to JB's challenge:
No new X-titles
If the books sell they will keep selling more X-books. Its silly to think
otherwise its what people want.
No recycling of 20 and 30 year old storylines
You built a career on this Mr. Byrne.
No more "writing for the trade", which also means
No stories that run more than 3 issues
Didnt Shooter impose artificial restriction on stories that led to you
leaving Captain America? Why limit creators?
No pinup covers
I agree with this.
No fake deaths
No real deaths
I agree with this too.
No breaking of the status quo by the latest flavor of the month
"talent".
Your jealousy of younger creators is almost palpable in this one. Again
popular creators are the will of the people. You werent complaining when
you were "hot" so you cant complain now that your not.
So all in all 2 good points.
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John Benson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1070
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| Posted: 23 December 2008 at 3:51pm | IP Logged | 8
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Good lord, the paranoia is running deep today. What Breevort said was that there are people at Marvel who actively want to work with JB. If I've heard right Dan Slott is a big fan. No one at Marvel is "Setting the Trap" waiting "to Bait the Bear" so that they can score points by foiling some master plan JB has to save Marvel from itself.
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Tom Krevins
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Joined: 22 December 2008
Posts: 51
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| Posted: 23 December 2008 at 4:00pm | IP Logged | 9
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Lets face it...JB is a little scared of failing at Marvel...its hard to go home
again...he used to be a top seller but now his books sell under 10k...talk
about diminished expectations!
Plus lets face it..a lot of selfish fake fans on this board wont give JB any
straight talk that will help his career but would rather keep him holed up on
commissions and niche projects. Guys like Joe Zhang clearly have an
agenda..im sure he dreams of a fanfic project illustrated by JB brought on by
his inability to find work at the big two.
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John Benson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1070
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| Posted: 23 December 2008 at 4:00pm | IP Logged | 10
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"Tom" you're wasting your breath. All your doing is setting up Joe Zhang for another zing.
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Tom Krevins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 December 2008
Posts: 51
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| Posted: 23 December 2008 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | 11
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No worries John - Joe zhang - if that is his real name - is a known troll
online with clear daddy issues.
He also sent out some vicious hatefull spam email to me and some other
members of this board. shame on him but his zingers only make me smile.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6427
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| Posted: 23 December 2008 at 4:05pm | IP Logged | 12
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The naivete is running at least as deep as the paranoia. No one at Marvel is offering JB work one way or another.
The reaction to this challenge so far is to say (not in so many words) that writing for the trades, rehashing old stories, letting "hot" talent have its way breaking the status quo, and creating more x-books is working fine so kiss off.
With this current creative climate, JB isn't interested. What the pimple-brains seem to be missing is that JB doesn't need the work. This challenge isn't a palpable confession of anything but frustration with the way beloved characters are being handled.
Edited by Mark Haslett on 23 December 2008 at 4:05pm
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Topic Closed)
