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Joe Hollon
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13704
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| Posted: 28 February 2008 at 9:11am | IP Logged | 1
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A few months ago something about Liefeld came up on the JBF and it inspired me to dig out a copy of YOUNGBLOOD #1 and see what it was like. I had almost no memory of it at all since it had been 16 years (!) since I read it.
Wow. Very interesting experience is all I can say. Amazing what I see in his work now that I didn't notice at all back then.
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 28 February 2008 at 9:42am | IP Logged | 2
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Yeah, you know, I used to flip thru books by Miller, Mignola, Sienkiewicz,
Romita Jr, Chadwick, Buscema, Gibbons, Bolland, Garcia Lopez, Simonson,
Kubert, etc,
Man, I wish more of those guys would've been working high profile gigs around the time Rob and Todd popped up, maybe things would've turned out differently.
Heck, I wish they were dominant in today's comics!
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Donald Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 3601
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| Posted: 28 February 2008 at 10:38am | IP Logged | 3
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If I am enjoying the writing on a comic, I can endure a few issues of questionable art. Especially if it is understood to be a filler story between arcs, or trying out a new artist...If I really like an artist I can endure a story arcs worth of weaker writing...
It is the combination of Bad Writing (nothing but crossovers) and excurutiatingly bad art of the Image boys kind (exagerated grotesque bodies with tiny heads and too many lines along with ubsurd character design) that pushed me away from comics for the better part of a decade during the 90's.
Don
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133514
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| Posted: 28 February 2008 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 4
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If I am enjoying the writing on a comic, I can endure a few issues of
questionable art.
••
Lucky! I find the opposite -- bad art can destroy a good story, while great
art can elevate a poor story.
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Peter Hicks
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1985
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| Posted: 28 February 2008 at 10:47am | IP Logged | 5
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"No Rich Buckler?
but, but, but....... I like Rich Buckler!
;)"
Not sure if you are joking or not, but I loved Rich Buckler's art in the 1970s on FF, Avengers, and Deathlock. I am not denying the swiping allegations, but I have yet to see anyone post some side-by-side proof of Rich doing it. Are there any online?
BTW - Rich said that once he stopped trying to draw like other artists, and just be himself, is when his popularity completely tanked.
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Erik Larsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 344
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| Posted: 28 February 2008 at 10:53am | IP Logged | 6
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Robert Bradley wrote:
I think a lot of us would have less of a problem
with Liefeld if all he did was draw in his own style without the swipes.
After all, a person's taste in art is a totally subjective thing. |
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That may be the case to a degree but a LOT of what Rob is picked on for
is what he puts down on paper without looking at anything. People react
to the wrinkled brows and opened mouths and abundant teeth and
distorted anatomy and continuity gaffs and funky feet and those
mysterious mounds that often hide them. Swiping adds another level, to
be sure, but a lot of what repels some fans is the things Rob brings to the
table that are entirely his own doing.
--And those same things are what attract his fans so it goes both ways.
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Erik Larsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 344
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| Posted: 28 February 2008 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 7
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John Byrne wrote:
If I am enjoying the writing on a comic, I can endure a few issues of
questionable art.
••
Lucky! I find the opposite -- bad art can destroy a good story, while great
art can elevate a poor story. |
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I feel exactly the same.
Miller, Mignola, Sienkiewicz, Romita Jr, Chadwick, Buscema, Gibbons,
Bolland, Garcia Lopez, Simonson and Kubert are a few of the guys that
keep me coming back for more.
I find it a struggle to read a comic book with art that I don't like-- and
not enough guys are doing much for me these days. Miller, Mignola,
Sienkiewicz, Romita Jr, Chadwick, Buscema, Gibbons, Bolland, Garcia
Lopez, Simonson and Kubert don't draw enough comics! Luckily--there
are trades and back issues.
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4887
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| Posted: 28 February 2008 at 11:08am | IP Logged | 8
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True Erik, Kirby gets a few criticisms for the same reasons. [boy, that should stir some things up]
Liefeld's main problem is probably that he didn't really learn his craft and become a solid storyteller like Kirby, Colan or and Ditko, whose work was also very stylized. Liefeld probably doesn't deserve the beating he takes in the comics industry [or at least the personal criticism], he was giving the fans what they wanted, but tastes changed rather dramatically to a point know where fans want photorealism, which isn't a lot better IMO. Marvel and Image are as much to blame for the overall look of '90s art' as Liefeld is. The swiping is inexcusable under any circumstance however.
One thing I've always wondered - how did he fit all those teeth in the tiny little heads that he gave people?
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4887
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| Posted: 28 February 2008 at 11:11am | IP Logged | 9
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I find it a struggle to read a comic book with art that I don't like-- and
not enough guys are doing much for me these days. Miller, Mignola,
Sienkiewicz, Romita Jr, Chadwick, Buscema, Gibbons, Bolland, Garcia
Lopez, Simonson and Kubert don't draw enough comics! Luckily--there
are trades and back issues.
Agreed, and I think this is prevalent among most comic book readers.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133514
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| Posted: 28 February 2008 at 11:12am | IP Logged | 10
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Kirby gets a few criticisms for the same reasons.
••
I'm trying to figure out what the heck you could possibly mean by "the same
reasons". They both use the pointy end of the pencil? Comparison of Liefeld
and Kirby begins and ends there.
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4887
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| Posted: 28 February 2008 at 11:17am | IP Logged | 11
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Well, in that the anatomy of his characters wasn't always that precise.
But then, that wasn't what Kirby's art was about - it was about storytelling and energy. And Liefeld's work doesn't have that. It just has a bunch of freakish muscles and really bad anatomy.
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Donald Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 February 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 3601
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| Posted: 28 February 2008 at 11:26am | IP Logged | 12
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The Difference being (and admittedly, I did not understand this as a kid) Kirby had an understanding of human anatomy and art to base his stylistic choices on. whereas Liefeld, maybe not so much....
Don
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Topic Closed)
