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Andrew Bitner Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7526
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Posted: 19 February 2008 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | 1
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It's a very bold move on DC's part and one that I imagine comes from the frustration of so many books that lateness or swapped-in artists have made returnable. Considering the marginal profitability of so many titles, something had to be done.
I admire Dan D and the gang for having the guts to do it. It won't make DC much loved in the artist community but hey, who cares? DC needs books, not rose-growers.
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Dave Aikins Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 July 2007 Location: United States Posts: 2110
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Posted: 19 February 2008 at 6:48pm | IP Logged | 2
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JB-
Yeah, I have a permanent residence in the world of "commercial art". I would
agree that it seems like the pay for most commercial work is better then
comics, which is a shame.
However, even though commercial work may be, to you, more demanding,
I'm guessing that I would find the practices of comic publishers frustrating
and maddening...
As well as demeaning from time to time.
You've got to really love the medium to deal with the publishers!
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Trevor Giberson Byrne Robotics Chronology
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 1888
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Posted: 19 February 2008 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | 3
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I'm not great artist (quite the opposite!), but I've drawn enough to notice that a figure drawing I spend 30 minutes on is not much different in quality than the one I spend hours on fretting with. An annoying truth that is, all that work and I end up with something not quite the same, but not much better either. Just with more eraser marks.
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Steven Myers Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5700
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Posted: 19 February 2008 at 6:55pm | IP Logged | 4
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I talked to an artist at a convention recently. He's great but not fast. He said he has done the monthly schedule before, but with his page rate about 10 times what it used to be he's expected to put more into each page. There are artists who can work fast and well, he said.
I'm not sure if Neal Adams, George Perez, or Carlos Pacheo ever drew 12 comics in a year. But I really like their stuff. The key to me is not promising to do more than you can.
I also heard Tony Isabella talking about having to trun out an entire issue of the Fantastic Four in 3 days (all the writing and art). But I don't remember the artist.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133580
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Posted: 20 February 2008 at 4:09am | IP Logged | 5
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Are the higher output artists (more comics per month) generally paid the
same amount per page as the lower outpout artists? Or are there incentives
for those with a higher production capacity?
••
Page rate is page rate. Some of the "hot" artists cut themselves special
deals, but most usually page rate is based on tenure.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133580
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Posted: 20 February 2008 at 4:14am | IP Logged | 6
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I'm not sure if Neal Adams, George Perez, or Carlos Pacheo ever drew 12
comics in a year.
••
What about George's run on TEEN TITANS?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133580
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Posted: 20 February 2008 at 4:25am | IP Logged | 7
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You've got to really love the medium to deal with the publishers!
••
I've had this conversation with several of my contemporaries over the years -- people who came into the business around the same time I did, before there were royalties or "incentives", when page rates were barely enough to make a living on. We consider ourselves lucky, because we are the last "generation" who can say without equivocation that we got into the Biz purely for the love of it. There was not even a whisper of "doing it for the money", as there was virtually no money to be had!And we actually all came in when there had recently been a big boost in the page rates at Marvel and DC (in an attempt to stave off a flow of artists and writers to Atlas, who were paying higher rates for a while). The "generations" before us really worked for "slave wages". When I started at Marvel, I got $33 per page for full pencils. At the same time, Charlton was still paying the "old rates", so there I got $50 a page -- their top rate! This is what they paid Steve Ditko! -- for pencils, inks and lettering! As Frank Miller has so aptly pointed out, back then the driving force to do your best work was pure love of the form, and the "friendly rivalry" between the artists.
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Knut Robert Knutsen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006 Posts: 7374
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Posted: 20 February 2008 at 4:31am | IP Logged | 8
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"At the same time, Charlton was still paying the "old rates", so there I got $50 a page -- their top rate! This is what they paid Steve Ditko! -- for pencils, inks and lettering!"
That is what really impresses me about the guy. I may not agree with his politics or his choice to be very polemic in some of his books, but the man was willing to work for chump change (compared to what he might otherwise get) in order to preserve what he could of his integrity and artistic freedom (as he saw it). I've seen a lot of guys talking about the ideals of "the Fountainhead", but he really lives it.
If they ever did a "remake" of the Fountainhead, they should pick the Steve Ditko story.
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Joel Biske Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 January 2007 Location: United States Posts: 761
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Posted: 20 February 2008 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 9
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Something else.. where JB did his breakdown, he made no mention of covers. I realize it become fashionable to have some painter or other artist do the covers, that's an additional 12 images with their own billing and pricing.
Even if you can ONLY manage a page a day.... a couple weekends and I think you'll be managing ok on a book a month as a penciller.
Have a friend who is working for one of the big two lament that he only has 5 weeks to get the next issue done. I THINK he's doing pencils and inks tho...
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Joel Biske Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 January 2007 Location: United States Posts: 761
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Posted: 20 February 2008 at 8:13am | IP Logged | 10
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Another thought....
With this new think of printing from uninked pencils.... where does the inking budget/$$ go?
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Joakim Jahlmar Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 October 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 6080
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Posted: 20 February 2008 at 8:14am | IP Logged | 11
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JB wrote: "But, thanks to the indoctrination by Todd McFarlane and the Image boys, such speed is now looked upon as an indicator of inferiority. To be any good, a book must be late (because, you know, the idea of working far enough ahead that deadlines present no problems is an alien concept to the idiots who buy into the 'growing roses' crap)."
I can't help but think the worst part of the growing roses crap is that inevitably creates a strong dividing line, as if the finished page is everything or the time is. Now I'm quite sure there are slow moving (for one reason or another) artists out there who could produce marvelous comics, but a lot slower than the necessary page rate for a monthly... Definitely doesn't mean their lesser artists if one looks at what they produce, but they should so obviously NOT be working on monthly titles if they can't keep that schedule.
I mean an artist could produce pages in the spirit and quality of Kirby, and I'd love to see that in comics, but if the person can't deliver on time, well but him/her on minis or limited arcs where the editors can see to it that the work will be available when it needs to be.
All in all, sounds like DC is at least slowly coming to their senses.
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Anthony J Lombardi Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 9410
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Posted: 20 February 2008 at 8:16am | IP Logged | 12
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Well atleast it's a beginning. Now to come up with a better plan is the next step. Instead of taking are away from them how about taking away money from them.
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