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Howard Mackie Byrne Robotics Security
Armed and Dangerous
Joined: 16 February 2005 Posts: 666
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Posted: 24 February 2008 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | 1
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<<The real comparison would be "If Ultimates shipped 12 times vs. 4, we'd make three times as much money">>
That is EXACTLY the point!
Howard
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Jim Campbell Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 October 2006 Posts: 380
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Posted: 24 February 2008 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | 2
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F*ck all! Screw you,Mackie, and all those books you worked on that I
loved ... this is the 21st century now! You can't have fun, you can't have
wonder, you can't have books that ship on time!
No ... it's late shipping, incomprehensible, grim, realistic, ninja death
warrior books from here on in ... whaddaya mean guys who can fly ain't
realistic? As long as they're killing people and agonizing about stuff, you
can be damn sure it's realistic.
Jeez, I thought that you of all people would understand that.
Cheers
Jim
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Aaron Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 10461
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Posted: 24 February 2008 at 5:35pm | IP Logged | 3
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Every time a thread like this one runs 10 or 11 pages, it really annoys me that this subject has to be discussed in the industry today. Is this really so hard for publishers to do? If it's a monthly book....get it out on time! I thinkit all just comes down to laziness and the feeling that it really doesn't matter, which is a horrible attitude to have in any business.
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Paul Greer Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004 Posts: 14190
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Posted: 24 February 2008 at 5:36pm | IP Logged | 4
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The retail level store owners should be demanding higher selling books like Ultimates or All Star Batman and Robin come out monthly. They are the ones who are losing out on the chance to sell more comics. Yes, producing a comic twelve times a year costs the publisher more money, but it gives the retailer more money to earn. Which, by the way, would give retailers extra money to stock more titles and make even more money for both them and the publisher. At least that's how this capitalist sees things.
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Robert Bradley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4887
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Posted: 24 February 2008 at 6:39pm | IP Logged | 5
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This example has been used here often and I agree in theory, but I
think one thing everybody forgets. The publisher has to pay four times
as much for the second book to make the same amount as the first book.
The printing costs would be the same (maybe more for new plates) ,
but the cost of labor would be more, I don't have a clue about
royalties, someone here else may know.
The publishers may prefer to ship less books, but with higher sales.
The real comparison would be "If Ultimates shipped 12 times vs. 4, we'd make three times as much money"
The guys who really get screwed (at least financially) are the retailers.
* * * * * * *
Of course Millar and Hitch were probably making more than the average creative team, so that would have driven the cost of those issues up a bit as well.
But I agree that retailers are the ones who really get screwed.
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Howard Mackie Byrne Robotics Security
Armed and Dangerous
Joined: 16 February 2005 Posts: 666
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Posted: 24 February 2008 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | 6
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<<No ... it's late shipping, incomprehensible, grim, realistic, ninja death warrior books from here on in ... whaddaya mean guys who can fly ain't realistic? As long as they're killing people and agonizing about stuff, you can be damn sure it's realistic. >>
Point taken.
Howard
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Robert Bradley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4887
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Posted: 24 February 2008 at 6:56pm | IP Logged | 7
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I thought I'd take a look at the monthly production of a couple of Marvel's mainstay artists of the 1974-1976 brothers John and Sal Buscema. I picked 1974 to 1976 because that was the period when i started collecting.
Here's how many stories each did by year -
1974 - John 36, Sal 29 1975 - John 36, Sal 41 1976 - John 35, Sal 47 Total - John 107, Sal 117
Think about this for a second. For the three-year period John averaged 2.97 issues a month, and Sal averaged 3.25! And in 1976 he averaged 3.92 comics a month, despite drawing two annuals!
Just think of the roses these guys could have drawn if they'd taken their time!
Edited by Robert Bradley on 24 February 2008 at 6:56pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133580
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Posted: 24 February 2008 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | 8
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This example has been used here often and I agree in theory, but I think one
thing everybody forgets. The publisher has to pay four times as much for
the second book to make the same amount as the first book.
••
In point of fact, if the publisher gets his monthlies to the printer as
monthlies, guaranteed, he avoids things like late fees and can actually work
out deals where he pays less to print 12 than to print 10 or 8.
I have no idea where you plucked this "four times as much" nonsense from.
If that were true, no comicbook company would last past its second issue.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133580
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Posted: 24 February 2008 at 7:22pm | IP Logged | 9
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Just think of the roses these guys could have drawn if they'd taken their time!•• I think the thing that burns my biscuits most about the whole "growing roses" crap is that not one artist in ten is really spending all that extra time at the drawingboard. Refer to Leifeld's comment upthread. Late because he's hangin' in the Holly 'hood, not because he's slaving over a hot drawingboard all day. Sad thing is, there are just enough clueless fans and retailers to float this particular boat.
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Aaron Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 10461
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Posted: 24 February 2008 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | 10
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I think the thing that burns my biscuits most about the whole "growing roses" crap is that not one artist in ten is really spending all that extra time at the drawingboard.
***
As if that's not bad enough, I want to know what the late writers are doing. There is absolutely no way it should take a month or more to WRITE a 22 page comic story, whether in Marvel format or full script.
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Scott Sackett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 407
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Posted: 24 February 2008 at 7:53pm | IP Logged | 11
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This example has been used here often and I agree in theory, but I think one thing everybody forgets. The publisher has to pay four times as much for the second book to make the same amount as the first book.
••
In point of fact, if the publisher gets his monthlies to the printer as monthlies, guaranteed, he avoids things like late fees and can actually work out deals where he pays less to print 12 than to print 10 or 8.
I have no idea where you plucked this "four times as much" nonsense from. If that were true, no comicbook company would last past its second issue.
***
From here:
if you're putting out a comic that sells 100,000 copies an issue but only comes out four times a year you're selling 400,000 comics. A comic that ships monthly only has to sell 33,333 copies an issue to match that.
Based on the fact the creative team for the lesser selling book would get paid for doing more pages. (it should have been three times, not four. I'm sick, faulty math!)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133580
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Posted: 24 February 2008 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | 12
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Keep trying. Your math is still wrong.
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