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Steven Myers Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5700
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | 1
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It's funy that the artists who, off the top of my head, I thought of as being slow are apparently much much quicker than modern artists...
Except maybe Pacheo. But maybe someone can prove me wrong on that one, too!
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Brandon Frye Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 November 2004 Posts: 1324
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 8:17pm | IP Logged | 2
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QUOTE:
Why don't they ship comics to Wal-Mart and Target and other such places? I see a million kids in there every time I'm in those places. It's like setting up a hotdog stand at the end of a dark alley instead of a busy intersection. Makes no sense. |
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Even the checkout counters at grocery stores would have been a great spot as the kids might spot them there and cajole their parents into buying them one while waiting in line.
I got hooked on my first comic as a teenager casually browsing the magazine rack of the local 7-11. I had never had the slightest interest in comics even in the moments walking up to that rack. One comic caught my eye and I found myself interested enough to pick it up and flip through it. I decided it was interesting enough to take home so I bought it. After that I kept an eye out for the next issue and bought it as well. From there I was "bitten by the bug" so to speak.
Had comic shops been the only outlet for comics, I would likely not be posting this today because I might never have discovered comics. How many kids would casually stroll into a comic shop by happenstance? I didn't even know comic shops existed when I bought that first comic and it was only later when I wanted back issues of it that I ventured into a comic shop.
The really sad part of this is how many retailers blow their stack at the mere suggestion of offering comics to newsstand outlets, even though it would ultimately help their business by increasing the fan base. Evidently these type of retailers would rather lose the wealth than consider sharing it.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133580
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 9:36pm | IP Logged | 3
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For roughly the past 30 years, the comicbook industry has been a perfect model of how NOT to do it. Closer to 60 years if you want to include the decision to keep the cover price 10¢.At every turn, when some new opportunity was presented, the industry either ignored it, or did it wrong. And what is astonishing is that anyone with a modicum of business sense could see at the time that it was wrong. (I have something less than a modicum, but I was warning of the dangers of the Direct Sales Market -- each and every one of my fears having been realized -- almost from the moment it was a gleam in Phil Seuling's eye.)
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Brad Brickley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8290
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 10:11pm | IP Logged | 4
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Many times people have asked me where to pick up comics because I'm the comic guy and all I can say is you have to get them at the comic shop in Everett. A town 60 miles away. I have no answers.
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Kevin Brown Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 9009
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 10:25pm | IP Logged | 5
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I'm not sure if Neal Adams, George Perez, or Carlos Pacheo ever drew 12 comics in a year.
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As was pointed out already, Adams has. Pacheco has not though. And Perez definitely has!
For DC: Perez drew New Teen Titans 1-4, 6-40 PLUS two Annuals. (His missing the one issue was planned as he had another project to draw that month, IIRC, for Marvel.) He also drew all 12 issues of Crisis on Infinite Earths, which was never late as far as I remember. And he also did the first 24 issues of Wonder Woman without missing an issue, all on time, as well as co-writing it!
His Marvel work was a little more erratic, but he was kept quite busy and apparently putting something out once a month.
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Jason Czeskleba Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004 Posts: 4649
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 10:54pm | IP Logged | 6
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Steven Myers wrote:
It's funy that the artists who, off the top of my head, I thought of as
being slow are apparently much much quicker than modern artists... |
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Adams is not slow, from what I've read. His problem was that his comics work was sometimes secondary to commercial art jobs, and he was overextended. As opposed to many of today's late artists, who simply draw slowly or aren't very productive.
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Jason Czeskleba Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004 Posts: 4649
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 11:06pm | IP Logged | 7
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Knut Robert Knutson wrote:
Yeah, a lot of fans love Neal Adams work. Shame there's so little of it
to go around. When Neal couldn't deliver, if there hadn't been other
great artists capable of producing work quicker in order to fill in the
issues he had to skip, there would be no famous Ra's al Ghul saga
(Thank you Irv Novick!), no Kree-Skrull War (Thank you John Buscema!)
because the books would have been cancelled. |
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That's a fair criticism regarding the Avengers, but not regarding the Ras Al Ghul stories in Batman. The original group of stories featuring Ras (although now reprinted in TPB) were not conceived as a "saga." Adams never signed on as the regular artist on Batman. At that time, Julius Schwartz used a rotating group of artists (Adams, Novick, Brown) and writers (O'Neil and Robbins). It's not really fair to say Adams "couldn't deliver." He delivered the issues he contracted to do, just as Brown and Novick did. The issues drawn by Brown or Novick are not fill-in issues, since the book did not have a permanent creative team.
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Knut Robert Knutsen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006 Posts: 7374
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Posted: 23 February 2008 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | 8
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" The issues drawn by Brown or Novick are not fill-in issues, since the book did not have a permanent creative team."
I guess you're technically right, but it seems like splitting hairs. Julie Schwartz knew his stuff -including the fact that fans liked a consistent team on a specific feature, and if it had been possible to keep Adams on the Ra's Al Ghul stories, I'm presuming he would have. It's precisely because he couldn't that Novick and Brown are doing other parts of that story.
But it's beside the point. My point is that Superstars back then were not given the power to hold up books and a lot of artists that are now overlooked and sometimes casually dismissed were the ones who kept the fires burning when slower (or less productive ) artists who were more popular weren't available.
And a lot of us prefer those "less popular" artists who delivered so consistently.
Edited by Knut Robert Knutsen on 24 February 2008 at 12:00am
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Scott Sackett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 407
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Posted: 24 February 2008 at 12:59am | IP Logged | 9
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At Wizard World Chicago one of the Marvel editors was talking about their talent search and mentioned they expected their artists to pencil a book in six weeks.
If thats true I'm suprised ANY of their books are on time!
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Ron Chevrier Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1641
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Posted: 24 February 2008 at 1:46am | IP Logged | 10
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Three or four years ago, I attended the Toronto Comicon. Eddie Berganza was addressing a large crowd of DC fans. At one point, he said something that I will never forget because of its pure audacity. I'm paraphrasing a bit, but he proclaimed to the effect that "Readers are happily willing to wait a little longer for a book if the creative team is really doing a really good job"
Um, no, they're not. They wait because they have no choice if they want to read the further adventures of their favorite character(s) in the late book in question. And isn't the creative team always supposed to be doing a really good job?
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Knut Robert Knutsen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006 Posts: 7374
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Posted: 24 February 2008 at 2:11am | IP Logged | 11
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The reason some guys get away with being consistently late is that they're "hot". Their work is popular and sells a lot when published. You see this in other areas of entertainment as well. Some "hot" superstar actor or actress can get away with chronic (and costly) lateness and crass primadonna behaviour because their perceived worth to the show or film they're working on is greater than the cost. The downside is that when they're no longer hot, their ability to get work is measured by punctuality, ability to work well with others and other signs of professionalism as well. So if they behave professionally when "hot" they're more likely to keep getting work when they're not. Likewise, if you're not "hot" or hugely talented or a "good buddy" of somebody in a position to guarantee you work, Bad behaviour isn't tolerated.
Bryan Hitch may take the time to "grow roses", but if some (as percived by editorial) interchangeable Joe Staffhack says "finishing these pages in the time you're giving me is compromising my artwork. I'm going to need an extra week per issue" the companies aren't going to stand for it. I worry that this is why they have instituted the new policy. In order to push the "Joe Staffhacks" back into line and appear to the public to address their concerns while continuing to bend over backwards for the primadonnas.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133580
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Posted: 24 February 2008 at 6:50am | IP Logged | 12
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Eddie Berganza was addressing a large crowd of DC fans. At one point, he said something that I will never forget because of its pure audacity. I'm paraphrasing a bit, but he proclaimed to the effect that "Readers are happily willing to wait a little longer for a book if the creative team is really doing a really good job"•• Larry Hama defined the success of truly horrendously bad artists as being due to "copy-ability". Just about everyone who ever read a comic book -- especially a superhero comic book -- has felt that little Gee, I bet it would be cool to do this for a living tingle. The bad artists who are wildly successful, Larry said, show us that anybody can do it, and they don't even have to be good at it. Late books are another part of the same equation. In real jobs, deadlines are deadlines, quotas must be met, product must be produced when promised, in quantities promised, etc, etc. But that's way too much like work! Late books tell us that it is not necessary to do the job on time, not necessary to live up to one's responsibilities, in order to be "successful" in comics. This plays directly the mentality that wanted to say Sorry I don't have my homework assignment ready, teacher. I'm taking extra time with it to be sure I get it done right. And right there is that implicit assumption that all those decades of books that came out on time, all those artists who didn't miss deadlines, were producing inferior product by definition. And it's why "professional" comics today are no more than fanzines.
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