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Topic: Spider-Man rebooted (spoilers) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Rich Abreu
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Posted: January 15 2008 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | 1  

Less of a problem these days with all the reprints out there.  Heck, I think Essentials are up to the first Clone Saga by now.

That's proving my point.  My 12 year old nephew who is interested in Spider-Man because of the movies has to have his mom spend X amount of dollars on X amount of trades to "catch up"?  This is the biggest turnoff for new readers. 

Not necessarily, since the one problem facing new readers is that they rarely get to be at "the ground floor" with an existing character.  By doing occasional revamps, direction changes or whatever, comic companies can give new and old readers alike a "new experience" to share.

Revamps and such turn off old readers and make things even more confusing for new readers.  The best solution is to keep things at "the ground floor".

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John Byrne
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Posted: January 15 2008 at 2:46pm | IP Logged | 2  

When I started reading superhero comics, in 1956, my first exposure was to
reprints that were five or six years old. When I came to Canada two years
later, and found the new stuff on the stands, I was able to slip right into the
adventures of Superman and Batman et all with nary a false step. No
one had to catch me up, because the Batman of 1958 was precisely the
same as the Batman of 1948. Same with Superman. When it was time to
"change and grow" it was time for a new artist, not a new take on the
character.
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Rich Abreu
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Posted: January 15 2008 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 3  

2) There's very little source material about the Devil in the Bible.

3) If we are referring to Marvel, the idea that a blonde, Shakespeare-
speaking god is an accurate portrayal of Thor is funny.

Good points.  But the recent story implies he has way more power and a much different reasoning than portrayed in the Bible.  He annulled the marriage to hurt God and have Peter and MJ feel torment on Earth?  That's not very consistent at all with the biblical devil.  I thought the same thing about Thor right after I posted it.  I was thinking more of some of the Greek stuff.

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Rich Abreu
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Posted: January 15 2008 at 2:53pm | IP Logged | 4  

I have been reading The Spirit by Darwyn Cooke since the first issue.  I have never read a single Spirit story before this and I don't know anything about the character created by Will Eisner.  I found it easy to follow and I have been loving it.  It doesn't require me to buy any past issues or trades or to know the whole continuity of the character.  This character is much older than Spider-Man but is way easier to follow and jump on.  This is how Spider-Man should be handled.  This is what the reboot could have done but didn't.

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Gregg Halecki
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Posted: January 15 2008 at 2:54pm | IP Logged | 5  

About the Muppets...

How interested is anyone in the Muppets? Do people watch the Muppet Movie for the charachters, or for the comic elements and jokes? Same thing with the Simpsons. People watch the Simpsons because they are funny. They don't watch it because it is INTERTESTING.
Despite the name Super Hero comic books are not based on their COMIC (humorous) value. Back to the 60s and early 70s Marvel had a formula of a mixture of action with charachterization. I think we can all agree with the greatness and success of that formula.
But it is pure hubris to value that charachterization only up to the point where it suits YOUR taste. Stan made Peter seem like a REAL person, that, I assume, is what made all of us love him to begin with. You can't just say that "I loved him for his humanity, but stop making him so human."

What were other things in the world that were popular in the past? I wasn't there for most of the past so I don't particularly have any come to mind before a certain time. But just because Peter Parker as the struggling teenager struck a chord and appealed to a 12 year old JB doesn't mean that the same thing would have appealed to a 12 year old Gregg Halecki (I am guessing) 20 years later. And there is no reason to expect what appealed to me 20 years ago would appeal to a 12 year old now. More to the point, even if what hooked JB or me into comics might appeal to a 12 year old now, that doesn't mean that something ELSE wouldn't also appeal to them.
Now, with the ready availability of reprints and collections, is the LAST time that the industry should be rolling back the clock and only offering the same thing that they offered in the past. For one reason, that style of story is abundantly available already in reprints. For a bigger reason, it just seems like today's "talent" is going to write the same crap stories regardless of what the backdrop is, and it will always be nothing but a poor imitation of previous greatness. And they are going to do it by removing the things that made the stories great to begin with.
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: January 15 2008 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | 6  

Here's another YouTube video dealing with the fiasco called "One More Day" (There seems to be quite a few videos that criticize the storyline):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDF52sDD_78

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Dave Phelps
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Posted: January 15 2008 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | 7  


 QUOTE:
Revamps and such turn off old readers and make things even more confusing for new readers.  The best solution is to keep things at "the ground floor".

I think you misunderstood what I meant by "ground floor."  I wasn't referring to keep things at an old status quo, but rather being there at the beginning of a new one.

A series that's been around a few decades has everything well-established.  Anyone coming in today has missed the first encounters with the classic villains, the first meetings of the major supporting cast members, etc.  Even the initial bumps and ticks of a series as the creative team work out the initial kinks are long since smoothed.  So anyone coming in today is just seeing the latest dance of familiar elements.  Nothing wrong with that of course, but there's something to be said about being there for something a little bigger.  When the companies change something, the new fan gets to be there for uncharted territory, which is exciting.  Of course, such things should be handled with care, and whatever is done needs to be entertaining on its own merits.

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Gregg Halecki
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Posted: January 15 2008 at 3:06pm | IP Logged | 8  

About the Spitit comparison....

To be fair, how much material has been produced featuring the charachter in the past 30? 40? 60? years?

Sure it is easy to follow his history, because they didn't have to worry about how to keep readers interested enough to keep buying the book every month, much less 4 or 5 books every month.

I think it is like comparing apples and oranges.
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Rich Abreu
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Posted: January 15 2008 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | 9  

To be fair, how much material has been produced featuring the charachter in the past 30? 40? 60? years?

Sure it is easy to follow his history, because they didn't have to worry about how to keep readers interested enough to keep buying the book every month, much less 4 or 5 books every month.

You are making my point for me.  The book does not require the reader to follow his history, which is what reading Spider-Man does.  And that has nothing to do with how much material has been printed in the past, because its all ignored.

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Dave Phelps
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Posted: January 15 2008 at 3:12pm | IP Logged | 10  


 QUOTE:
And there is no reason to expect what appealed to me 20 years ago would appeal to a 12 year old now. More to the point, even if what hooked JB or me into comics might appeal to a 12 year old now, that doesn't mean that something ELSE wouldn't also appeal to them.

Heck, even I know the counter to that one.  If you think kids would rather read about a swordfighting kid who collects playing cards, then create a swordfighting kid who collects playing cards.  Don't pawn it off as "an exciting new direction for Batman."

The "murky" part is how much a character has to change before it's not considered to be the same character.  But the line is drawn on a fan by fan basis.  Heck, there are probably people here who would see nothing wrong with Batman getting bitten by a vampire and doing an "Angel" riff whereas others think the character's been broken since Dick Grayson quit the Robin gig. 


 QUOTE:
For a bigger reason, it just seems like today's "talent" is going to write the same crap stories regardless of what the backdrop is, and it will always be nothing but a poor imitation of previous greatness. And they are going to do it by removing the things that made the stories great to begin with.

That's a little harsher than I would put it, but it is a consideration.  The best stories tend to come from the writers who follow their muse and let the characters and situations proceed naturally.  Artifically hampering writers because the natural situations lead the character into a place where they "Shouldn't Be" won't necessarily lead to better stories.  (Obviously, the talent of the creative types involved is a HUGE factor here.)

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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: January 15 2008 at 3:13pm | IP Logged | 11  

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Dave Phelps
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Posted: January 15 2008 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | 12  


 QUOTE:
This is what the reboot could have done but didn't.

What do you mean?  The reboot made prior knowledge of Spider-Man a handicap more than anything else.

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