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Fred J Chamberlain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4044
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| Posted: 12 January 2008 at 7:47am | IP Logged | 1
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You're kidding, right Brad? I'll skip the chance at getting a sticker for it, but feel free to redo it yourself though.
Edited by Fred J Chamberlain on 12 January 2008 at 7:48am
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Michael Heide
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 July 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 398
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| Posted: 12 January 2008 at 8:59am | IP Logged | 2
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"This is the "Imaginary Story -- but aren't they
all?" crap. Every time it rears its ugly head, I die a little. It so
clearly underscores what has gone wrong at the most basic level, the
core, the root, the soul of this kind of fictioneering. When
you lose that bit of magic, that ability to plug into the story and
have it be absolutely and unshakably real (at least for the
duration), you have lost the most essential mechanism of the whole
thing. The first time you see Spider-Man in an "inescapable" death
trap, and think "but he'll get out of it because they have to publish
next issue", it's over. Stick a fork in it. Time to move on."
***
I see what you're saying. But I don't have a problem with investing in a story that I know is fictional, imaginary, however you wanna call it. Dark Knight Returns is a powerful story, even though it's not in continuity. It might not "count" in the long run, but is it worth any less than Knightfall? Not to me. Maybe it's because I got into comics after Crisis on Infinite Earths. But to me, enjoying a story counts more than having it fit into a continuity. Continuity is a plus, and delving into a world where actions have reactions, where deeds are remembered and every decision has consequences, sometimes years down the road - that's a wonderful thing, don't get me wrong. But if they want to retcon Batmite out of continuity, I don't mind. If I really love Batmite, I can always revisit the old stories. But if the writers think that they can write better, more enjoyable stories in a world without him, then let them. Bringing him back twenty years later isn't hard.
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Brad Brickley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8290
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| Posted: 12 January 2008 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 3
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You're kidding, right Brad?
*******************
Yeah.
Although I meant it about not being the right spirit of the originals. It would be great with different words.
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Dave Phelps
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4185
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| Posted: 12 January 2008 at 9:44am | IP Logged | 4
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Hmmm, how about cutting "the fruit filling" bit from the second to last panel? Then you start the last one with "Curse you wall-crawler! No one can resist the flaky crust -- the real fruit filling!" Don't know how to close it out, though. Best I could come up with was, "For this I will heal your aunt and you may keep your marriage!" and that just sounds clunky.
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16506
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| Posted: 12 January 2008 at 9:53am | IP Logged | 5
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Here is a video with the audio from Howard Stern's radio show, where Quesada tries his best to explain what Marvel has done to Howard and his crew:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CVwGMb6xGw
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Emery Calame
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5773
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| Posted: 12 January 2008 at 10:49am | IP Logged | 6
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Mesphisto sez: " Curse you Wall crawler! Keep your decrepid aunt AND your sappy marriage! All I can think of NOW is that sinfully delicious light, flakey crust and real fruit filling ! "
But it might be even funnier if you had some art of Mephisto going chewing a pie and/or smacking his lips while he said the above.
Edited by Emery Calame on 12 January 2008 at 10:54am
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Paulo Pereira
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Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 12 January 2008 at 11:25am | IP Logged | 7
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QUOTE:
| But it might be even funnier if you had some art of Mephisto going chewing a pie and/or smacking his lips while he said the above. |
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Agreed.
I like the cut-and-paste style of the ad, but it would rock if it were drawn in the style of, say, Sal Buscema.
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Brian Hague
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Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
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| Posted: 12 January 2008 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 8
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In the final panel, you could show Spidey swinging away from the now-happy and satiatied Mephisto with Aunt May in his arms and MJ wrapping her arms around his neck. May could chide, "Oh, Peter! Carrying around those gooey, mass-manufactured horrors? I'll bake you something nice back at home..." while MJ glances back at Mephisto and thinks, "Did Peter have to give Mephisto ALL of our yummy Hostess pies? I'd sell my soul for a taste of one right now!! ...And for spangled satin bell-bottoms to come back into fashion..."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Marvel already do something very much like this storyline back when the Space Phantom erased the world's memory of Captain America's identity as Steve Rogers? In that case, Cap didn't make any Faustian bargains, but you still had the seemingly beneficient work of a heretofore evil villain making the world a better and happier place for the hero, using powers of a scope we'd never seen him demonstrate before...
Somehow, Marvel survived it. Marvel should be able to weather this as well. It's not as if poorly written stories and "events" haven't been happening routinely for decades now.
For what it's worth, the first issue of "Brand New Day" was enjoyable. It read very much like the stories I associate with Spider-Man. I'm not 100% sold on the new Smallville-style Harry Osborn. Too much was made of Parker insisting on playing the role of loser when he doesn't have to, making the "Parker Luck" more of a self-imposed psychological state than a functioning aspect of the world around him. It's not as much fun identifying with Charlie Brown if you take the view that's he's doing all this to himself. Still, those are exceptionally minor issues for the first Spider-Man comic I've picked up since the Darwyn Cooke Tangled Web tales to actually seem like a Spider-Man story.
My heart goes out to the fans who feel robbed or cheated of their investment in the stories published for the past few decades. As a long-time DC fan, all I can say is, "Welcome to the Crisis."
Edited by Brian Hague on 12 January 2008 at 5:09pm
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***Des Embrey
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Joined: 09 January 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 16
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| Posted: 13 January 2008 at 4:58am | IP Logged | 9
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I see what you're saying. But I don't have a
problem with investing in a story that I know is fictional, imaginary,
however you wanna call it. Dark Knight Returns is a powerful story,
even though it's not in continuity. It might not "count" in the long
run, but is it worth any less than Knightfall? Not to me.
I don't think John was criticising Imaginary Stories as an idea (I'd expect he loved the ones from Julie Schwartz's books as much as everyone used to), but rather the argument that is put forward when dumb ass directions in the "real continuity" (for want of a better term) and stories are defended by saying "well all the stories are imaginary really". Suspension of disbelief is a fragile thing at times, and there are a LOT of questionable writers who don't do it very well at all. When you know the hero can't die, theres no drama in him being in a life threatening situation. Though I'd contend, when you know that no change made to his life is necessarily permanent, because the timeline is all Wibbly Wobbly now, then wheres the drama there.
I still say Pete should have asked for more than just May being saved. He could have brought Cap back as well. Heck, if he wanted to save May by fiddling with time, he could have stopped the New Warriors disaster and prevented this dopey registration act from happening and SHIELD turning into a neo-Gestapo.
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Stéphane Garrelie
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 August 2005
Location: France
Posts: 4226
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| Posted: 13 January 2008 at 9:50am | IP Logged | 10
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My most recent post at CBR:
As long as you choose to ignore OMD, BND is a good read. As far as i'm concerned i read it as if we got only the illusion of change since 1985. So no problem.
OMD poses some moral problems that should be adressed later, but no matter how crappy the Joe Q stuff was, or the fact that this EIC made all he could to make a reboot inavoidable during the last 7 years, that change nothing to the quality of the new stories.
You can read Dan Slott's BND as if it was the Marv Wolfman or the Roger Stern Spider-man with 2008 refs. It works.
I liked the marriage, and i even think that it would have been a good thing for Peter & MJ to have kids, but very few writers did write the marriage well. Michelinie, De Matteis, maybe one or two others, but thats all. Most of the writers didn't like the marriage, and you always work better when you like what you're working on.
I'll add to that the fact that the continuity became very problematic after the end of the Michelinie run. We got punisherish Spidey, the death of Aunt May, the Clone saga, the resurection of Norman, and lot of other things that were not good. But the real problem is that around this time, say 1993, too many people became aware of the real identity of Pete. Joe Q made it worse, first with the Spidey/Wolvie MK series and Shield plot ripped off Simonson's Thor run (" i know your secret ID because i'm a spy and thats my work to know stuff like that"), and then with all the "events" that you know. Joe Q Made it worse (on purpose i'ld say), but he didn't start it.
So yes greenlighting stuff like Sin Past, and even more the change he forced on it, Civil War, etc... were manipulation to make the reboot inavoidable.
And he didn't like the marriage. And i & many fans liked the said marriage. And i'm not very happy to see it go away. But i think that it opens doors that were closed, not because the marriage was a bad thing but because most of the writers didn't know what to do with it.
I don't like how the reboot was done. That was silly. That was out of character & didn't made sense on many levels.
But Brand New Day isn't OMD. It's good traditional Spider-Man stories, taking place in the 2008 reality. It is well writen, and well draw. The Jackpot stuff looks like an idioty, but thats the only wrong point, and even that could lead to some good stuff. We'll see.
The sooner Joe Q will resign as EIC, the better it will be for the characters, but even if he was wrong in how he did the reboot, even if he spoiled the characters on purpose to make the reboot a necessity, he was right to do the reboot.
I'll miss the mariage, and hope that MJ will be back as Peter's girlfriend, but Brand New Day is a good Spider-Man storyline, and deserve your attention.
There's one and only one reason to skip Brand New day: The hope that Joe Q will be fired if the sales drop.
Other than that, Brand New Day is the best Amazing Spider-Man story in years.
Edited by Stéphane Garrelie on 13 January 2008 at 9:57am
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Stéphane Garrelie
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Joined: 05 August 2005
Location: France
Posts: 4226
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| Posted: 13 January 2008 at 1:37pm | IP Logged | 11
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Thanks for this youtube/Q/Stern link Matt.
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Zaki Hasan
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Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8105
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| Posted: 13 January 2008 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | 12
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There's one and only one reason to skip Brand New day: The hope that Joe Q will be fired if the sales drop.
******
Personally I could care less whether Joe Q gets fired or not, but I'm skipping Brand New Day so that eventually they reverse their decision and restore the previous continuity.
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