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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 08 January 2008 at 11:57am | IP Logged | 1
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QUOTE:
| And I'm hoping that Norman is dead again, and that those ****ing Stacy twins never existed. |
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In his statement about OMD, JMS explained (complained?) that he intended to retcon them out at the end of his run but was never given the chance. I know. It's crazy.
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Mike Bunge
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1335
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| Posted: 08 January 2008 at 12:06pm | IP Logged | 2
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"In his statement about OMD, JMS explained (complained?) that he intended to retcon them out at the end of his run but was never given the chance."
I wonder if that's because JMS doesn't really understand the flow of monthly comics. Time travel stories where something goes wrong, then every thing gets set back right again are fairly common in sci-fi TV. But those "retcons" happen within a single episode or, at most, within a set of episodes or a single season. The monthly comic format, however, means that such "retcons" happen years after the initial story. I think the long gap between the SHOCKING STORY THAT WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING FOREVER and the "Hey! Everything's back to normal" destroys the creative legitimacy of the idea.
Mike
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133580
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| Posted: 08 January 2008 at 12:15pm | IP Logged | 3
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Some of the comments on this thread underscore exactly what is wrong, at the core, with "reboots" like this. Really doesn't matter how it's done -- Mephisto, Shaper of Worlds, editorial fiat -- almost at once people start discussing which pieces have been "removed" and which have not. What's still canon? How is it canon? Does so-and-so still have the same relationship with whosis, and if so, how? Does a new reason for that relationship need to be introduced?And pretty soon you have Krypto back. It's one of the most deeply rooted problems with the industry today -- the tremendous resistance of so many people on both sides of the equation, fans and pros alike, to move forward. Strangely, many of the same people who present themselves as champions of "growth and change" (exactly the kind of thinking that gets us into this kind of trouble in the first place), will get themselves all bogged down in the morass of "continuity", instead of letting things proceed in an organic way.
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Glenn Greenberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6746
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| Posted: 08 January 2008 at 12:24pm | IP Logged | 4
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<<<I'm hoping that Norman is dead again, and that those ****ing Stacy
twins never existed.>>>
For now, Norman is still in THUNDERBOLTS.
As for the "Stacy twins," since JMS was not able to properly retcon them out
of existence, I suspect we'll simply never see them again and TPTB at Marvel
will hope we just forget about them. If only I could!
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Mike Bunge
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1335
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| Posted: 08 January 2008 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | 5
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"It's one of the most deeply rooted problems with the industry today -- the tremendous resistance of so many people on both sides of the equation, fans and pros alike, to move forward."
That is the one thing I put in JoeQ's favor. OMD was a horribly flawed story and a horribly flawed way to get Spider-Man back to his core concept (something I think is fine), but his attitude of "We're not even going to pretend it all makes any sense" strikes me as better than JMS's idea of carefully constructing an alternate timeline to explain every last, little, anal retentive fanboy continuity problem (which really wouldn't explain everything, anyway).
Mike
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 08 January 2008 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | 6
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But...but I like Krypto...
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 08 January 2008 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | 7
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The whole uproar over OMD and BND, is pretty amusing to me.
Probably more entertaining than any of the issues in question <g>.
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Brian Kirk
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 November 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1243
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| Posted: 08 January 2008 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 8
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I'll make a deal with Quesada..."No more Marvel."
'Nuff said.
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 08 January 2008 at 1:00pm | IP Logged | 9
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I've always enjoyed J.R. Fettinger's ("MadGoblin") Spider-Man essays, even if I don't always agree. Here are his thoughts on this current situation:
http://spideykicksbutt.com/DeepThoughts/OneMoreDay.html
And his previous articles regarding the marriage:
http://www.spideykicksbutt.com/WhyYouMaryJane/WhyYouMaryJane Part1.html
http://www.spideykicksbutt.com/WhyYouMaryJane/WhyYouMaryJane Part2.html
http://www.spideykicksbutt.com/WhyYouMaryJane/WhyYouMaryJane Part3.html
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Ben Schwartz
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 168
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| Posted: 08 January 2008 at 1:06pm | IP Logged | 10
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JB said: "And pretty soon you have Krypto back."
A perfect summary of why most reboots don't work. That said, your words touch on the reason why I like this sort of "stealth reboot" (execution aside) more than a full on do-over. No matter how good a do-over is, once people see a blank slate for a beloved character, they don't look at is an opportunity to tell new stories--they only see the chance to tell old stories their own way. JB makes reference to what happened to post-"Man of Steel" Superman, but for an extreme example, look no further than the "Ultimate" line: Ultimate X-men has already done a Dark Phoenix storyline and Ultimate Spider-Man has seen the death of Gwen Stacy, ultimate Venom, ultimate Carnage and a freakin' ultimate clone saga already! As far as this current Spider-Man update goes, frankly I don't mind the hand waving and the affirmation that everything "counts," it just might have happened a little differently. In my mind, this isn't really all that different from having to make mental adjustments for dated references like Flash serving in Vietnam and Reed Richards and Ben Grimm fighting in WW2. It's not like there are any fans who have difficulty understanding how to deal with those examples...oh wait. Oh well, I'm going to enjoy a single, down on his luck Peter Parker while it lasts, until some fanboy creator comes along with a 12 issue, universe-spanning maxi-series featuring the marvel super heroes versus Mephisto...
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Michael Heide
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 July 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 398
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| Posted: 08 January 2008 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | 11
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"One of my earliest online encounters was with a
self-proclaimed World's Biggest Spiderman Fan. When I suggested that
perhaps someone who embraced that title for himself should at least
learn to spell the name of the character properly, he said that an
websearch would show that plenty of people spelled it "Spiderman" so
that made it okay.
It's okay to be stupid as long as everyone else is stupid."
***
Please don't lump me in with that guy. I was just trying to offer a no-prize explanation for why it's spelt wrong on the cover. I'll start worrying when they forget the hyphen in a word balloon or caption box.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36094
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| Posted: 08 January 2008 at 1:12pm | IP Logged | 12
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What's the difference? It's on the friggin' cover!
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Topic Closed)
