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Michael Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 December 2004
Posts: 831
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| Posted: 04 January 2008 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | 1
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I'm usually in the JMS detractor camp when it comes to plot and execution, but, for what it was, these worked for me. Also gotta say, I really enjoyed Joe Quesada's art in these issues.
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Pedro Bouça
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1465
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| Posted: 04 January 2008 at 6:06pm | IP Logged | 2
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How much did Norman ever really care about Harry, anyway? And are
we talking about Norman Osborn...or the Goblin persona? Didn't those
two things used to be distinct? --------------------------------------
I would say it was more of a pride thing. The explanation for Norman having vanished after his "death" was that he saw Harry finding the Goblin stuff and planning his own vengeance against Spider-Man. Norman than thought that his "heir" would do the deed and went to Europe.
After Harry died, Norman would have returned not because he cared about him, but to "save" the Osborn name.
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17701
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| Posted: 04 January 2008 at 6:12pm | IP Logged | 3
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I find Amazing Spider-Girl to be one darned good comic book month after
month, year after year.
---
Agreed, Bruce!
I'll bet Frenz and DeFalco could make AMAZING SPIDER-MAN enjoyable
again!
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Victor Rodgers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Posts: 3508
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| Posted: 04 January 2008 at 6:28pm | IP Logged | 4
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I remember Defalco having a nice run after the Clone Saga ended, including a really good Electro story in 425.
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Michael Heide
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 July 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 398
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| Posted: 04 January 2008 at 6:56pm | IP Logged | 5
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"We were going to reveal in April 1996 that Harry was the mastermind,
that he was the guy who had been walking around as "Gaunt." That would
have been the end of the Clone Saga.
In January 1996, a new EIC took over and was apprised of our plans. Two
things came down immediately from this EIC: one, it had to be Norman,
not Harry, who was the mastermind."
***
That reminds me: Which Goblin was behind the fake Parker parents? Back then, I thought it was Harry, working through the Chameleon from the grave, but after Revelations, it might as well have been Norman.
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 04 January 2008 at 6:57pm | IP Logged | 6
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Harry was behind the fake parents, and as far as I know, that hasn't changed.
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Emery Calame
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5773
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| Posted: 04 January 2008 at 7:30pm | IP Logged | 7
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I can hear the exploding heads of all those fans who told me again and
again that SPIDER-GIRL was "real". . .
I feel much safer knowing that she isn't "real". It makes her less likely to be randomly screwed with by the "hot young" snarky twisted writing talent crowd.
Or at least I hope so.
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Adam Hutchinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4502
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| Posted: 04 January 2008 at 7:30pm | IP Logged | 8
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Since all this talk of the Clone Saga has come up; I figured I'd give a link to the Life of Reilly.
It was a series of articles that looked at the Clone Saga, with behind the scenes commentary from Glenn. I found it to fascinating.
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Aaron Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 10461
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| Posted: 04 January 2008 at 8:02pm | IP Logged | 9
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I'll bet Frenz and DeFalco could make AMAZING SPIDER-MAN enjoyable
again!
***
I'm sure they could. I wouldn't be on this forum if it wasn't for their first time on the book, back in the mid 80s.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14864
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| Posted: 04 January 2008 at 11:11pm | IP Logged | 10
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While rereading Life of Reilly, I thought this quote from Glenn was really funny:
QUOTE:
| Tom DeFalco's response to the "Time Loop" was equally unenthusiastic. "Mephisto is not a Spider-Man villain," he wrote in a memo dated October 2, 1995. |
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Edited by Michael Roberts on 04 January 2008 at 11:11pm
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 05 January 2008 at 3:21pm | IP Logged | 11
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The final issue of One More Day finally arrived at my local shop yesterday, so now I can weigh in on some of this stuff.
*Peter Parker being married was never the direct cause of any bad stories printed in the past 20 years. Bad writing, bad art, and bad editorial decisions were a much bigger factor in that than whether or not Mary Jane was waiting for Peter when he got home at the end of the day.
*That being said, if this is what it takes for the new group of writers and artists to be able to move on from whatever's been done in the past, they may as well go for it. Comic readers being who they are, Marvel couldn't just have an issue #1 next month starting with a clean slate and expect readers to go along with it, so they needed to do an "on-screen" reset.
*Just like Crisis on Infinite Earths or any of DC's reset efforts, there will be grumbling in the short term and some readers will vow never to pick up another comic again, but people will adapt to all of this stuff pretty quickly, and within a few months, everyone will be back to their old habits again anyway.
*The preview pages for Brand New Day looked pretty good, actually. If Marvel follows through and makes Peter Parker a young, fun, funny and interesting character again instead of the sad sack he's been for the past five years or so, I'm definitely onboard as a reader.
*****************
And now, why I really wanted to post here--I read all four parts of One More Day, and here's why it really, really didn't work as a story:
*The Devil used magic to fix Spider-Man's problems? Really? What's to stop God from coming in and unmasking Spider-Man all over again, then? Or killing Aunt May? Or bringing Peter and Mary Jane back together again?
*Do Mary Jane and Peter really have the kind of love that only comes along "once in a millennium," as Mephisto claims? He's still whining about Gwen Stacy every other week, isn't he? I'm not doubting that they really love each other, but I'm not sure they've got something so completely unique that the Devil himself takes note of it.
*And Mephisto's deal with Spider-Man makes both of them look completely ineffectual. Remember when making a deal with Mephisto meant that you were condemned to have your head burst into flames at inopportune moments or that you'd have the Scarlet Witch's demon-babies for arms or that Shalla Bal would be waiting for you billions of light years from home after you'd nearly died rescuing her?
Peter Parker's punishment for making this deal is that his best friend is alive again, his aunt's alive and well again, he's gotten five to ten years of his youth back, and he and Mary Jane are no longer married, but they still get to go on dates and have casual sex and may eventually be able to get married again anyway.
Mephisto's reward for all of this is what, anyway? He retroactively didn't have to buy Peter and Mary Jane a wedding present? He gets his "stopped Spider-Man's wedding in 1987" merit badge from the Devil Scouts? He doesn't have to go to Peter and Mary Jane's parties anymore and feel left out since there are so many married couples around and he's always the only single guy there?
Mephisto looks like a big doofus as a result of this storyline. The least he could have done was to give Peter an extra eyeball in the middle of his forehead or condemned Aunt May to be the new Ghost Rider.
*The story was called "One More Day." The tagline for the story was "What would you do...with One More Day?" What part of the story didn't we see? The One More Day.
There was probably a really memorable story to be had from seeing Peter and Mary Jane spending one last day together in New York City as a married couple, knowing that when they wake up the next day, everything will be different. Anyone who's seen Groundhog Day knows that you can fit a lot into a single day, and this could have been a really emotional, touching story.
Instead, the One More Day was Peter sleeping for a while, him and Mary Jane talking over their decision, then Mephisto showing up and doing a bunch of cosmic stuff. Make all the complaints you want about Civil War and World War Hulk, but they at least gave you what they promised in their titles.
*This story really, really didn't need Mephisto. As other people online have pointed out, Loki owes Spider-Man a favor from a previous Straczynski storyline, so that's a way to wrap up everything with no loose ends. If you're going to sever ties with the past, do it neatly, and don't leave all of these potential plot threads that are going to nag at readers. Is the deal with Mephisto done or not? What did Mary Jane say to him at the end? A reboot with a half-dozen question marks attached to it isn't a good clean break.
*Once Dr. Strange was introduced, that's as cosmic as things needed to get. Dr. Strange feels obligated to help Spider-Man out, possibly because the events of Civil War played out incorrectly and he's got to set things right. He casts a big time world-altering spell (focused on Peter Parker and his friends and loved ones), but it's too hard to control. Dr. Strange lets him know that the spell will help Aunt May and his secret identity will be restored, but that it's anybody's guess what will happen to his world when he wakes up the next day--anything and everything could change.
Peter Parker rushes home, tells Mary Jane to cancel all her plans, and sets out to show her the greatest day of her life, not letting her know that life as they know it will change after this day (kind of like the early Simpsons episode where Homer thinks he's going to die from eating poisonous blowfish sushi, so he spends his last day on Earth doing everything he's ever wanted to do). THEN the One More Day title makes sense, it's a better story, and there's not quite as much of a Deus ex Machina solution aftertaste to it all.
*"Face it Tiger...you hit the jackpot" doesn't work as parting dialogue as the world changes around Peter and Mary Jane. They may as well have said "With great power comes great responsibility," or "Walloping web-slingers!" at the end of the issue. Too much emotional disconnect there.
********
Anyway, if the reboot leads to better stories, I can deal with the marriage as the sacrificial lamb that made it happen. I've got 20 years' worth of back issues if I want to read married Spider-Man stories, and with the cyclical nature of comics, a completely different take on a character is always right around the corner.
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Wayne Purdy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 March 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 426
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| Posted: 05 January 2008 at 3:29pm | IP Logged | 12
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Andrew,you voiced my opinionperfectly in yout post. Nuff said.
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Topic Closed)
