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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36087
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Posted: 03 January 2008 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 1
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Glenn Greenberg wrote:
Only that there's no stigma or "black mark" attached to divorce anymore |
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I don't know about that one, Glenn, particularly at the time you were at Marvel and discussing Peter and MJ divorcing as a possible solution to ending the marriage. I got a divorce in 1992 and there was still a stigma surrounding it, nearly all of it negative. Sideways glances, disapproving looks, whispers behind my back. If that happened to me, I can't see how it wouldn't happen to Peter in the MU as well as among his readership. I'd be hard pressed to say that the stigma of divorce is totally gone. It's still a massive sign of failure and something you carry with you for the rest of your life. We've seen Gwen dredged up at every opportunity. What's to say that Peter's divorce, yet another touchstone in his aging life (Death of Uncle Ben, later Death of Gwen, later Marriage to MJ, later Divorce from MJ), wouldn't be dredged up time and again because it's a new and shiny emotional crutch?
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Glenn Greenberg Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6746
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Posted: 03 January 2008 at 12:44pm | IP Logged | 2
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<<<What's to say that Peter's divorce... wouldn't be dredged up time and
again because it's a new and shiny emotional crutch?>>>
That's why there are EDITORS, Matt--to prevent that from happening!
(Well, maybe not so much anymore, but IDEALLY...)
Didn't know about your own personal situation, by the way. Very sorry
you went through such an unpleasant experience.
But there's a very good reason why I didn't know--you never mentioned
it! So as far as I've known, you were single and always had been!
If the folks who produce the comics followed your lead...
Edited by Glenn Greenberg on 04 January 2008 at 10:50pm
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Victor Manuel Fernandez Patiño Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Mexico Posts: 1602
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Posted: 03 January 2008 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | 3
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Having a single Peter Parker sounds fun, but under Quesada run as EIC sounds scary...
-BTW I don't think having a devil granting wishes to superheroes is a good idea, much less having a superpowered, err.. ex-wife, never wife, unwife? running around-
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Bruce Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4797
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Posted: 03 January 2008 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | 4
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Well anyway this is good news for grown men who still live with their moms. They finally have a hero they can identify with again: "MOM mustn't know I date other girls! She's so possessive she could just die."
They should've restarted him as an high schooler. Who aspires to be a college student who lives with his mom? Why on earth...
******************
Well....let's not get carried away. There is a precedent for this: Peter graduated high school in ASM #28, but didn't move out until issue #46.
There are many college students who live with their mom, particularly at urban universities (like the fictional Empire State University) that don't have much residential housing. Heck, even those of us who lived on campus in college still came home for holidays and the summer.
I don't think living at home while going to college makes Peter some kind of loser. In fact, in the hands of the right creative team, it could lead to some of the fun Lee/Ditko & Lee/Romita-type stories where Peter must go to great lengths to keep Aunt May from discovering his secret identity. Anyone remember the classic where Aunt May discovers a web dummy Peter left in his bed, causing her to freak out?
Or this could be simply be a prelude to Peter moving back in with Harry, a combination that led to many great stories in the 1970s.
Edited by Bruce Buchanan on 03 January 2008 at 12:49pm
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Jason Schulman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2473
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Posted: 03 January 2008 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | 5
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Having now read the JMS interview at Newsarama...as much as I hated JMS's run on Amazing Spider-Man, he makes one very valid point about the printed version of "One More Day":
"There's this notion that magic fixes everything. It doesn't. 'It's
magic, we don't have to explain it.' Well, actually, yes, you do. Magic
has to have rules. And this is clearly not just a case of one spell
making everybody forget he's Spidey...suddenly you're bringing back the
dead, undoing wounds, erasing records, reinstating web shooters, on and
on and on.
What I wanted to do was to make one small change to history, a tiny
thing, whose ripples we could control to only touch what editorial
wanted to touch, making changes we could explain logically. I worked
for weeks to come up with a timeline that would leave every other bit
of continuity in place. It was rigorous, and as logical as I could make
it. In the end of OMD as published, Harry is alive and he's always been
alive as far as the characters know...so how is that different than he
was alive the whole time?
It made no sense to me.
Still doesn't. It's sloppy. It violates every rule of writing fiction
of the fantastic that I and every other SF/Fantasy writer knows you
can't violate. It's fantasy 101."
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5835
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Posted: 03 January 2008 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | 6
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They should've restarted him as an high schooler. Who aspires to be a college student who lives with his mom? Why on earth...
******************
Well....let's not get carried away. There is a precedent for this: Peter graduated high school in ASM #28, but didn't move out until issue #46.
***********
SER: Yes, but this was partly a result of the original mistake made in having Peter graduate from high school. As pointed out, this makes it difficult to maintain a unique element to the character (a hero who still lives with his "mother") without making the character a complete loser. And yes, I know that many college students live with their parents -- just like many adults do, but the key here is that when you're 12 or even 15, you don't aspire to graduate high school... and stay at home. When Peter was a high school student, it made sense because he was a minor and there was no other option.
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Paulo Pereira Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006 Posts: 15539
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Posted: 03 January 2008 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | 7
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QUOTE:
It made no sense to me.
Still doesn't. It's sloppy. It violates every rule of writing fiction of the fantastic that I and every other SF/Fantasy writer knows you can't violate. It's fantasy 101." |
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'Sloppy' seems inadequate somehow.
(BTW, isn't that last sentence bad grammar?)
Edited by Paulo Pereira on 03 January 2008 at 2:17pm
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Michael Heide Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 July 2007 Location: Germany Posts: 398
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Posted: 03 January 2008 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 8
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Am I a bad person for still looking forward to Brand New Day? They have great writers, great artists and a setup I can live with. I like Peter working at the Bugle. I like mechanical web-shooters. I like Harry Osborn. I like not even Aunt May knowing Spidey's secret identity.
I mean, seriously, the worst case scenario right now is they retcon the retcon, and we get the status quo we had pre-OMD: Black costume, public identity, totemic powers, marriage intact.
Best case scenario: The Brand New Day stories are fun, and a year from now, nobody cares how they got there.
I think the glass is half-full right now. Because they haven't finished pouring in yet.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36087
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Posted: 03 January 2008 at 2:20pm | IP Logged | 9
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Stephen Robinson wrote:
And yes, I know that many college students live with their parents -- just like many adults do, but the key here is that when you're 12 or even 15, you don't aspire to graduate high school... and stay at home. When Peter was a high school student, it made sense because he was a minor and there was no other option. |
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Still makes sense to me in the context of who Peter is. He had/has no money. He's not loaded enough to afford his own place in Manhattan. Hell, most people I know that live in NYC at his age don't have the money to do that. Depending on how old Peter is supposed to be now, the fact that he may live with his aunt doesn't make him a loser in my book. It's a fact of life. In effect, he still doesn't have another option unless and until they (the writers and/or editorial) decide to have Peter become Harry's roommate because Harry is one of the lucky few to have the means to live in Manhattan at their age.
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Frank Balkin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 August 2004 Location: United States Posts: 141
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Posted: 03 January 2008 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 10
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I never had a problem with a married Spider-Man.
When I was eight years old, and started reading comics, one of my favorites for several years was Cary Bates and Irv Novick's THE FLASH(which featured a married superhero). Don't tell me "an eight year old can't identify with a married superhero." I enjoyed the hell out of that series, and no less than I did SPIDER-MAN by Wein/Andru, BATMAN by David V. Reed/Ernie Chua, and SUPERMAN by Pasko/Swan, the Bob Rozakis TEEN TITANS -- all of which featured "single superheroes."
I do think it was a mistake to make MJ successful as a model/actress - I think it would have been more interesting and in keeping with the tone of the series to have her eternally struggling to make a living.
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Mike Bunge Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1335
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Posted: 03 January 2008 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | 11
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Regarding the JMS comments from Newsarama, I find it pretty funny that he thinks his anal-retentive-fanboy-constructed retcon would have been sooooo superior to JoeQ's "It's just magic" retcon.
Mike
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Paulo Pereira Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006 Posts: 15539
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Posted: 03 January 2008 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | 12
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QUOTE:
Best case scenario: The Brand New Day stories are fun, and a year from now, nobody cares how they got there. |
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Or, more likely, nobody will remember how they got there and that, I think, is what Marvel is banking on.
As for the rules JMS referred to in that article, re: magic, those probably go down the crapper forever.
I'm just wondering if Mephisto has this sort of power, wouldn't he be able to seriously mess shit up? Oh, I forgot, I'm not supposed to be asking these types of questions...it's Magic!
(Uh-oh, it's Magic!)
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