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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 15775
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Posted: 02 January 2008 at 2:45pm | IP Logged | 1
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2) What exactly does Mephisto get out of the deal that makes him "win?"
+++++++++
Apparently, some teeny, tiny parts of Peter and MJ's souls will "remember" the marriage, and Mephisto gets to snack on that suffering.
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Martin Redmond Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006 Posts: 3882
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Posted: 02 January 2008 at 3:16pm | IP Logged | 2
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I bet Mephisto planned it ALL ALONG ever since 1988 Amazing Spider-Man Annual!!! Mwhahahahahahaha!!!
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36087
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Posted: 02 January 2008 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | 3
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Just got done reading "One More Day" and I've gotta say, as a Spider-Man story, it sucks all kinds of sour eggs. The writing is overwrought and laborious, no surprise I guess as I find most of JMS' mainstream superhero work a chore to get through. The characterizations are nearly unrecognizable from the characters I've known and loved for decades previous to JMS' eight year run. The art is at times just OK, but mostly a convoluted mess. The story point that Peter Parker, one of the smartest people in the MU and who has dealt with Mephisto on several occasions, doesn't think to ask about the life that he'd be giving up with MJ via the little girl really stretches the bounds of believability. Pretty much everything from a story point about "One More Day" was bad...
Except for the fact that, at the end, he's not married, May and Harry are alive, his webshooters are mechanical, and no one knows Peter Parker is Spider-Man. Sorry guys, but it should come as no surprise to anyone that these are exactly the changes, the return to status quo, that I've been clamoring for. This is an ASM, a Peter Parker, I can get behind. Sure, it all depends on where the new creative teams on ASM take him, but starting from this base is just fine and dandy for me.
I haven't read every post in this thread, far from it, but from the several pages I have read, reactions seem to be split down generational lines. Those of you who got into ASM 'round about the time Peter was dating and ultimately married MJ in the mid-late '80s are pissed. Those of us who had gotten into ASM a decade or so earlier, who were pissed about the change in status quo from a single Peter to a married one, are now happy that he's single (plus some) again. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Y'all had a married Peter Parker for 20 years. Me, I think it's about time to have the mainstream, flagship title be about the character most people can readily identify with. I'm back on board.
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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 15775
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Posted: 02 January 2008 at 5:21pm | IP Logged | 4
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Matt's comments raise a very valid question...do the ends justify the means?
Edited by Greg Kirkman on 02 January 2008 at 5:21pm
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Ted Mederson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 October 2007 Posts: 101
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Posted: 02 January 2008 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | 5
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I think so - I think the way they got to this point can, should, and will be overlooked if there are quality Spider-Man stories being pumped out. The same way they never mention the dead Spider-baby, Sins Past, Kaine running around somewhere, or the other various awful creative choices made over the years, the "deal with Mephisto" gets swept under the rug.
Time to look forward, and I think the title of the new arc is sending that same message to fans.
Edited to add that inevitably, some fan-turned-pro will feel a need to "fix" this 5-10 years from now!
Edited by Ted Mederson on 02 January 2008 at 5:30pm
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14864
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Posted: 02 January 2008 at 5:37pm | IP Logged | 6
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Matt's comments raise a very valid question...do the ends justify the means?
---
No. There were a number of ways of reaching the status quo of Brand New
Day without having Peter and MJ make a Faustian deal to trade their
marriage and potential child for Peter's elderly aunt.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36087
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Posted: 02 January 2008 at 5:40pm | IP Logged | 7
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For me, all that crap can be chalked up to a terrible, piss-poor run on ASM ending with a story in the same vein as all those that preceded it for the past eight years. What matters to me is what happens from this point on.
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Glenn Greenberg Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6746
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Posted: 02 January 2008 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | 8
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<<<How long has it been since things went completely off the rails?>>>
I'd say that things went off the rails when DeFalco and Frenz were removed
in the midst of the "Gang War" storyline, and the series never fully recovered
after that. Though there have been some good moments since then, of
course.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133572
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Posted: 02 January 2008 at 5:43pm | IP Logged | 9
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Here's your basic problem. As EiC, Quesada approved the stuff he is now supposedly undoing. If he thought the spider-totem and Norman boinking Gwen were good ideas, why should any hope be held out that what happens "from this point on" has a chance of being any better?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133572
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Posted: 02 January 2008 at 5:44pm | IP Logged | 10
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How long has it been since things went completely off the rails?
••
Issue 38 was… how long ago?
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Todd Douglas Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 July 2004 Posts: 4101
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Posted: 02 January 2008 at 5:46pm | IP Logged | 11
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QUOTE:
Those of you who got into ASM 'round about the time Peter was dating and ultimately married MJ in the mid-late '80s are pissed. Those of us who had gotten into ASM a decade or so earlier, who were pissed about the change in status quo from a single Peter to a married one, are now happy that he's single (plus some) again. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Y'all had a married Peter Parker for 20 years. Me, I think it's about time to have the mainstream, flagship title be about the character most people can readily identify with. I'm back on board. |
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Then there's those of us who fall somewhere in between. I find it interesting (if only to myself) that the two most significant times I've followed Spider-Man books were Untold Tales, set quite firmly back in the early days, and Friendly Neighborhood, set quite firmly in time of the marriage, the unmasking, "The Other," etc. So, from my perspective, there's enjoyable stories to be had under either circumstance, and every permutation in between.
There's just something about OMD that leaves me cold, and uninspired to follow along into "Brand New Day" and beyond. So, while I've been (back) on board - or, at least, 1/3 on board - for roughly three years until the demise of FNSM...I'm out again for the foreseeable future.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36087
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Posted: 02 January 2008 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | 12
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One thing that hasn't been mentioned are all the accolades for JMS' run on the last page of ASM 545. In addition to several questionable compliments, one written by Kevin Feige, Producer/President of Marvel Studios, was especially frightening to me:
"My favorite J.M.S. Spidey moment also happens to be my favorite Spidey moment period: Aunt May discovers Peter's secret. It has become my mission to put that moment up on screen. Someday we will. I promise."
Yeah, so everyone who said what JMS did in the comics doesn't ever really matter because it'll all be changed anyway can look forward to the day when May discovers Peter is Spider-Man in the films, seen by millions upon millions more than will ever read the comic and for whom the character is definitive, and thank JMS. As someone who hated that JMS ever did such a thing, believing it to be the beginning of the end of the character (which it was, as it was at the beginning of a terrible, awful, truly horrific near decade run on ASM) as Peter would never do such a thing because of the guilt he feels over his role in Ben's death, I now know who to blame.
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