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Knut Robert Knutsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006
Posts: 7374
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| Posted: 17 February 2008 at 2:10am | IP Logged | 1
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"the creators somehow failed to dispel the central perception that the character had gotten a divorce."
I know some guys who wish they could get a divorce like that.
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***Erik Larsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 49
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| Posted: 17 February 2008 at 2:30am | IP Logged | 2
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Scott Nickel wrote:
Footnote: See page 46 -- Smilin' Scott
http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22720
&PN=1&TPN=46
John Byrne said:
How about calling Jim Lee, Mark Waid, and Peter David liars?
••
There are severe legal consequences attached to calling someone a "liar".
I have never done so.
++
How about Erik Larsens "background man"?
••
:
That was corrected and apologized for years ago. The background man
actually worked for Valentino.
Ah, but it's only the BAD news that makes for the good stories, isn't it?
HEY, ERIK LARSEN! SEEMS I GOT CONFUSED AND MIXED UP YOUR BOOK
WITH VALENTINO'S! SORRY ABOUT THAT! ALSO SORRY FOR SHOUTING
AND REPEATING MYSELF, BUT APPARENTLY SOME PEOPLE ARE A BIT DEAF
AROUND HERE. |
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That's actually the post I was responding to. you see--in it--John says,
"That was corrected and apologized for years ago. The background man
actually worked for Valentino. "
What I'd like to see is the actual post from "years ago" in which John
admitted that he was mistaken and apologized.
I've seen a few familiar posts here--one in which John says he is
"perfectly prepared and willing to offer a full and formal public apology to
Erik Larsen" in exchange for me taking back all sorts of undefined
"deliberate misstatements" I've made about him and his work--but that
doesn't mention anything about Valentino or any kind of mix up and it
sounds like more of a "prisoner-exchange offer" than actually admitting
any error.
And I don't mean any malice here. I'm simply curious to see it. An apology
was never e-mailed to me. I never received a phone call. Nobody I knew
had seen it and passed it my way. So, it came as a bit of a surprise to find
out, years after the event, that I'd somehow missed it.
Now--granted--I have not been an active participant here--and I
haven't even been a voyeur, really. Once or twice a year somebody posts
a link that I've followed in an effort to start a discussion elsewhere. I'd
sometimes pop in and read it but for the most part I've been going along,
blissfully out of touch and unaware of the goings on here. Because of
that--it's quite possible that I missed something.
(It would have been nice if the apology had run in the same forum as the
accusation. It would have been nice if the people who had believed that
"misstatement" could have been set straight--but I didn't see anything
there).
In any case, I've tried registering here on several occasions over the last
few years and was shut out both times. This is the first time I've actually
been able to post anything.
It's not a big deal--and if it turns out that John half-remembered the
"prisoner-exchange offer" post and thought that it was an apology--I
understand. We all make mistakes, after all. I was just curious if--
somehow--I was actually apologized to and missed it somehow.
Edited by Erik Larsen on 17 February 2008 at 2:33am
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***Des Embrey
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 January 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 16
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| Posted: 17 February 2008 at 2:31am | IP Logged | 3
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no, sorry, it still doesn't work ... change the past you either don't change the characters who cause the change and thus they are still married but just don't know it, or you create a separate timeline ... wibbly wobbly time or not ...
I don't see you can how you can have it both ways - you either have a continuity and the tapestry that provides for writers who want to explore the events of the 23 seconds in a characters origin between panels 2 and 3 via an entire miniseries, or you have isolated fun stories ala Dick Sprang's Batman stuff that have no more than a whisper of continuity
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***Erik Larsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 49
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| Posted: 17 February 2008 at 2:42am | IP Logged | 4
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Des Embrey wrote:
no, sorry, it still doesn't work ... change the past you either don't change
the characters who cause the change and thus they are still married but
just don't know it, or you create a separate timeline ... wibbly wobbly
time or not ...
I don't see you can how you can have it both ways - you either have a
continuity and the tapestry that provides for writers who want to explore
the events of the 23 seconds in a characters origin between panels 2 and
3 via an entire miniseries, or you have isolated fun stories ala Dick
Sprang's Batman stuff that have no more than a whisper of
continuity |
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It's kind of like after DC's "Crisis on Infinite Earths" when, as a reader, it
seemed very nebulous as to what was canon and what wasn't. We're
expected to buy that it's "all the same" and yet there's no definitive thread
that we can follow. It becomes a weird time-travel story in which
somebody goes into the past and alters reality in such a way that the
whole story structure crumbles.
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***Erik Larsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 49
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| Posted: 17 February 2008 at 3:38am | IP Logged | 5
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Ray Earles wrote:
This is all I was able to find via Google:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:nFhOHjpgNDYJ:vu.morriss ey-
solo.com/moz/perez/news/030729.htm+%22A+Public+Apology+to
+Erik+Larsen%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us
Quote:
From John Byrne Messageboard
Re: A Public Apology to Erik Larsen
posted July 26 2003, 10:39 AM by John Byrne
If you think about it, Larsen is easy enough to understand. He is at best a
third rate artist who built much of his "reputation" riding the coat tails of
others. He made such a shameless attempt to imitate the more successful
Todd McFarlane, during his tenure with Spider-Man, that the Toddler
himself even commented on it, in his Bullpen Bulletins profile, saying his
"hobbies" included "learning to draw like Erik Larsen".
Larsen then became one of the founding fathers of Image, and began at
that point what appears to be a concentrated and conscious effort to
convince the world (and himself?) that he was worth the millions of
dollars he was making. This is part of why he has played himself as a kind
of "Working Class Hero", referencing as often as possible how he kept
Savage Dragon going even after it became unprofitable to do so, and even
suggesting that I "abandoned" Next Men at a time when my book was
selling better than his!
The Image bubble has burst, taking much of the industry with it, but
Larsen continues to operate as if no one has yet noticed the Emperor has
no clothes. That is the only possible way to explain something as
grotesque as his not only speaking ill of the work of George Perez -- and
artist who, at his worst is a thousand times better than Larsen at his best
-- but having the audacity to provide point by point criticism of the work,
as if he, Larsen, has anything even remotely of value to offer in a
discussion of the merits of the work of an artist.
Please note I most pointedly and deliberately do not say another artist.
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That's not remotely an apology--and it's as wrongheaded and grotesque
a statement as I've read in quite some time.
The idea that somehow a person needs to be an equivalent or superior
artist in order to offer valid criticism is just wrong on all levels. Even a
talentless slob can look at a drawing and say, "Damn--that head looks
too big" (or whatever) and be right on the money. It's beyond foolish to
shut out every voice others than those whom you feel have legitimate
talent when it comes to looking at and criticizing somebody's work.
And at no point have I ever so much as hinted that I thought I was
anywhere near as good as George Pérez.
The rest is mind-reading, supposition and falsehoods. Does John Byrne
know what kind of money I made at Image? No. Does he know how much
I paid people that worked for me? No. So--how can he make blanket
statements about my net worth in comparison to his? He can't. Or rather-
-he can't with any degree of accuracy.
And Todd was kidding, by the way. My first issue was a fill-in. Part five of
a six part story and I felt it was my duty to try and make it look as much
like Todd as I could so that it was as close to seamless as possible. Once
the gig was mine, I eased into my own style.
Todd and I have been friends for years--I even helped pencil pieces of
part fix of that story, which Todd inked. Todd recommended me for the
job.
Sigh.
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Gerry Turnbull
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 8766
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| Posted: 17 February 2008 at 3:51am | IP Logged | 6
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Erik, im intereted to know if you still consider the posters here as a "legion of lemmings"?
Edited by Gerry Turnbull on 17 February 2008 at 3:51am
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Knut Robert Knutsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006
Posts: 7374
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| Posted: 17 February 2008 at 3:56am | IP Logged | 7
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I get this image of Marc Anthony going "I came here not to USE the hatchet, but to BURY it."
Instead of the actual apology (if that text is still available somewhere in cyberspace) people keep dredging up the remarks that fuelled the fire in the first place. Not very helpful. It's like "let's have Erik and JB fight!"
JB said he made a mistake about the background man story, and that he'd already apologized. Erik Larsen says he never got the apology and wondered what it was. If someone can find the actual text, fine. If not, don't keep stirring up the other old shit.
It's like some of you guys (not Erik and JB) want a rehash of the fight. If the rest of us just back away, I'm sure Erik and JB can settle it on their own. Hopefully they'll get to the friendly handshake before Rich Johnston's deadline so we can put this to rest.
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***Erik Larsen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 49
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| Posted: 17 February 2008 at 4:03am | IP Logged | 8
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Gerry Turnbull wrote:
Erik, im intereted to know if you still consider the posters here as a "legion
of lemmings"? |
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This sounds suspiciously like one of those "do you still beat your wife?" type
questions for which there is no right answer. In any forum there are those
willing to follow any given creator off a cliff (not that lemmings actually do
that but most people seem to think they do--During the filming of the 1958
Disney nature documentary White Wilderness, the film crew induced
lemmings into jumping off a cliff and into the sea) and this one is no
exception. That does NOT mean that EVERY person posting here would "take
a bullet" for anybody--but that SOME would.
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Stéphane Garrelie
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 August 2005
Location: France
Posts: 4266
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| Posted: 17 February 2008 at 4:10am | IP Logged | 9
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And at no point have I ever so much as hinted that I thought I was
anywhere near as good as George Pérez.
*****************
Erik, I like your work, and even when you were following Todd's steps with your art on Spider-Man i preffered your art to the one of MacFarlane, even if he was the "original" and you were (at this time) the clone. Yours was just closer to my tastes.
BUT I too have read what you wrote about Perez some years ago, and it was really wrong. (Thats probably still out there, like this post by JB thats the kind of stuff that people tend to save.... Thinking of it again, i think i saw both your comments on Perez and the JB post that you just quoted in the same thread, at the same place).
As you see everybody can be wrong JB does certainly his fair share of errors, but so you do too.
Is it really this hard to move on? I believe that you are a sincere fan of his work, and i'm happy to see you here. I understand that you had to say something about his apologies post if it's the first time you see it, but now i think it's clear for everybody that JB said he made a mistake about the background artist point, and you completed his post.
I'm also happy to see you aknowledge the true value of George Perez's art.
All this being said what is the point of continuing to argue about all this. I'm pretty sure that both JB and you have followers that will be happy to take side, but there's even more people out there who enjoy to see the fight and are here to see the blood of 2 comics creators with *cough* "a strong personality".
So are you here to join the fun and talk about the work of one of your favorite artists, and fellow pro, or to make a spectacle for people who are probably enemies of both you & JB?
Edited by Stéphane Garrelie on 17 February 2008 at 5:49am
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Gerry Turnbull
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 8766
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| Posted: 17 February 2008 at 4:16am | IP Logged | 10
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thanks for the explanation Erik.it wasnt a trick question.the article that was written in, didnt have that explanation, it read as if you considered all of us here to be lemmings.glad thats not the case.
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Stéphane Garrelie
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 August 2005
Location: France
Posts: 4266
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| Posted: 17 February 2008 at 4:33am | IP Logged | 11
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& Clone by the way is excessive. let just say strongly influenced. You quickly found your own style, even if you were following the MacFarlane trend.
Thats why i preffered you to Todd on Amazing.
Edited by Stéphane Garrelie on 17 February 2008 at 4:35am
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Rob Spalding
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 June 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1152
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| Posted: 17 February 2008 at 6:16am | IP Logged | 12
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Out of interest.
For those of you reading Spider-Man and Brand New Day, is the story one that couldn't have been told if Peter and MJ were still married? Does the seperation of the two have any influence on the story at all?
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Topic Closed)
